+- BAJR Federation Archaeology (http://www.bajrfed.co.uk)
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+--- Thread: BAJR, IFA and Prospect... talking ?? (/showthread.php?tid=1786)
BAJR, IFA and Prospect... talking ?? - BAJR Host - 26th August 2004
BAJR has approached the IFA and Prospect to discuss a joint front (along with ARIA, SCAUM and ALGAO etc) to deal with pay, conditions and career structure.
Your comments about this are extremely welcome....
questions such as ;
Are BAJR grades reasonable?
Should Curators be the people to rate the Units
Should the Units rate the Curators?
Is the problem pay or the lack of permanant work?
Do you want to see tax, holiday pay, pensions etc as part of your remuneration?
What do you want BAJR to say ... this is a chance to put your views forward (unless of course you already have!!)
Should BAJR remain independant?
many thanks ... as many comments as possible please!!
BAJR, IFA and Prospect... talking ?? - destroyer - 26th August 2004
should bajr remain independent? i refer you to quotes involving popes, woods, catholicism and bears.
BAJR, IFA and Prospect... talking ?? - BAJR Host - 27th August 2004
I guess that I better stock up on my own papal toilet paper then!!
BAJR, IFA and Prospect... talking ?? - Leon Capon - 27th August 2004
I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean by 'Should curators rate units and units rating curators' and what this might have to do with pay, conditions and career structure.
Anyway, some comments:
I think that it is reasonable that BAJR sets grades, though I think currently they are less relevant as market forces are increasing pay (except for the lowest grades), though pay is still stupidly low.
The answer to the question of 'pay or permanent work' is, I think for most 'diggers' both.
Solving the problem of low pay, poor conditions etc despite on the surface seeming quite straightforward (lets all get together and agree to raise pay), is actually very complicated.
You get all those acronyms together, what are they going to do apart from agreeing that pay and conditions should be better? who are they going to present a 'joint front' to?
I think that Prospect should be doing more than having tea with the IFA, they should be concentrating on increasing their membership and recognition, so that it is truly representative of the grass roots of the profession, and that it might have some real bargaining power.
Prospect is key to solving these problems.
BAJR, IFA and Prospect... talking ?? - BAJR Host - 27th August 2004
Thanks Leon... I will start to add all these comments to a document to try and make a cohesive proposal to Prospect / IFA
BAJR, IFA and Prospect... talking ?? - drpeterwardle - 28th August 2004
At least some discussions are going on. It has to be accepted that for what ever reason attempts to improve pay and conditions over the last 10 years have failed. Everybody agrees pay and conditions should improve -even parliament thinks they should.
The IFA stance was given in a recent posting on Britarch
"Once all archaeological organisations are registered it will be relatively easy to make improvements to pay and conditions across the board, without putting the good ones at a commercial disadvantage."
This is perhaps true but ....will it ever happen?
Prospect has members in 19 archaeological contractors and all I think are RAOs. Prospect are hardly therefore representative will every digger actuially join - they have failed to do so uptill now. In the March digger they call for industry wide pay bargaining and talks with SCAUM and IFA.
David how about producing a league table based upon BAJR ads of who pays what and what the conditions are?
At least employers would known what the going rate in their area is and what the competative disadvantages would be in improving pay.
I have always wondered about the mark up on diggers salaries compared to what a developer is charged for them. There are few overheads for diggers in terms of offices etc, materials etc are separately. If a digger is charged out at ?130 per day for 44 weeks where does the ?14000 difference between the diggers pay and the income go!
Peter Wardle
BAJR, IFA and Prospect... talking ?? - voice of reason - 28th August 2004
You want to know where the rest of the money goes? Let's nail this issue because it is a red herring and concentrate on real issues.
To explain again, and I'll try and keep it simple:
Among other things (and they are many and varied) there's employer's NI contributions, holiday and sick pay (strangely rates are set to take into account that people aren't earning fees all the time), admin staff (to do things like pay the excavator's wages, keep the business running, do personnel kind of things like contracts) insurance, premises, rates, fees to other professionals (eg acountants, surveyors, helath and safety advisors), stationery, consumables, vehicles, tools, capital equipment (like computers, bit difficult without them nowadays) and software and OS licences. Maybe even some phones. Cameras and film perhaps? Oh and there's training. And perhaps even some outreach (cos no-one else will pay for it). And if you're really lucky we might even follow health and safety law and comply with that (surprisingly that doesn't come free either).. and...and if you really want me to go on and bore you rigid, then I can but I hope you get the picture.
Oh yes I forgot annual pay awards and incremental progression.
Oh yes, and then, if we do happen to make a surplus at the end, that goes to do silly little business things like providing sufficient reserves and cashflow to make sure that everyone gets paid every month and we don't have to make people redundant everytime the breeze shifts, and also to make sure the bank relaise we are actually solvent.
Archaeology is like any other business (unless you are a local authority unit). It costs to be professional if you are not working out of a back bedroom at home. Look at the publicly available balance sheets of units - no-one is making vast sums of money from exploiting diggers by charging rates of ?130 per day.
Pick on the right target ie our low comparative worth compared to other professions and trades.
BAJR, IFA and Prospect... talking ?? - BAJR Host - 28th August 2004
Quite right Voice... but I fear you may be talking of one of teh more enlightened Units if all these things are implemented... I know of many more that do mot provide that sort of cover... if they did... then pay and conditions would not be an issue.
I remember only too well myself trying to explain to diggers that although I charge them out at ?1xx by the time all is said and done... there is little left over.... but it is only a valid point IF and it is a big IF the Contractor is actually paying NI, holiday, equipment, footwear, toilets, portacabins etc etc (these should have been costed separately anyway... and the digger rate is just for a digger... - thats how I ran it..)
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BAJR, IFA and Prospect... talking ?? - EarlySlav - 28th August 2004
Glad that things are moving on so well that no archaeological unit would think of cheating their workers. Here in Belfast no company director would ever lie, or cheat his staff, fail to tell them to their face if there had been any changes in plan that would affact them and their family,or give them backdated contracts. So no need for union protection here.:face-confused:
BAJR, IFA and Prospect... talking ?? - BAJR Host - 29th August 2004
Ouch.... me thinks a bitter pill has just been swallowed and then spat out again.
It is a real problem of comunication, when management level feel it is not teh concern of the workerss to know what is going on. Now in many cases you do not need to know, in some cases it is the case that it is hoped that the worse case seenario will noot happen... but it has to remembered that people are human, if something may affect a non employed workforce... then you have a right to know.
My question in you case..... are you employed and if so the contract should give you certain rights (if you have a backdated contract that you have not signed then a breach of employment law may have taken place.. ) I am not too sure of NI Law
I would not expect the management to tell the digger everything... however if employment law is being breached that is a different matter.
If you would like to gice me further details I suggest you contact me directly (info@bajr.org) and I will provide you with my home phone number - I may be able to look seriously into this.
BAJR