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+--- Thread: How should British Archaeology be run (/showthread.php?tid=4559)
How should British Archaeology be run - david.petts - 4th September 2012
Obvious myself and UO1 disagree on the basic purpose of a university and I don't think that repeated head banging by either of this is going to change our minds.
I think Universities need to make it clearer that a basic UG doesn't make you instantly employable as a field archaeologist- in fact I can think of very few basic degrees that do this- the vast majority of profession one enters require some form of additional training whether via post-graduate courses or formalised work experience (paid for either via the tax payer or through the profession). The trouble is funding- I think the idea of industrial placement courses or post graduate courses (Masters in Professional Archaeology or some such) are a really good idea, but I'm not sure if they'd be financially sustainable over the long term. It's not just a case of funding the teaching/training, but providing the funding for students living costs etc. Regrettably I highly doubt bodies like AHRC (who are the only HE Funding Body who could conceivably fund this kind of thing) would support it, as it would be seen as vocational rather than research. Equally, commercial archaeology units (even the big boys) have nowhere near the income that say big management or financial companies do who fund their own graduate staff training schemes.
One additional problem I'd flag up (because there aren't enough already) is that it is increasingly hard for students to get pre-University excavation experience, particularly in a commercial context. When I started at University 20+ years ago, I think the majority of those in my year had had some digging experience, I think I'd had about four or five months worth (with a mixture of commercial units and big research digs) and others had similar quantities. But that was in the day when you would get paid to dig and provided with free accomodation- I remember getting ?50-60 a week and a room on my first ever dig despite having never been on site before. However, it is now increasingly difficult to find opportunities to dig without shelling out at least the same amount and often much more. Some can afford that- but many can't and many don't live in parts of the country where there are such opportunities. Because the big funding bodies don't fund large research digs on the whole, the whole financial model has changed in the last 20 years- it's all about recouping costs rather than spending huge research grants. This limits the amount of field archaeology experiences available pre and during University. Of course things may be different for UO1 down in Lincolnshire, but that's certainly the current situation up here in the North-East
cheers
David
How should British Archaeology be run - BAJR - 4th September 2012
As it happens. I am now looking at my first cross over commercial archaeology / research training dig. Students will pay for accomodation and or food... but it will be free... and staffed by old lag commercials who will provide specific training in the 'basics' of archaeology in commercial enviroment ( no not hack it out and get it in section!)
Hopefully at end of October ... well it could work.
In a way... we know the issues, we know the solution - the secret will be biting the bullets
pps forget banging your head. just keep talking the way you are. it is interesting, relevant and useful.
How should British Archaeology be run - kevin wooldridge - 4th September 2012
BAJR Wrote:As it happens. I am now looking at my first cross over commercial archaeology / research training dig.
That sounds fantastic David...do you know whether they might be looking for old lags willing to volunteer time and effort?
How should British Archaeology be run - david.petts - 4th September 2012
FWI I know that Duncan Sayer at UCLAN is working with OA East on his digs at Oakington - obviously here at Durham we work with our own commercial unit for our training excavations too, as I think to Leicester. I'd be interested to know of any other examples of academic/commercial or community/commercial co-operation
cheers
David
How should British Archaeology be run - Unitof1 - 4th September 2012
Quote:@ unit - who trained you and how many archaeologists have you trained?BSc, MSc, county units, university units, pipeline units, self employed in 2001 broke since about 2009
I have only trained up two people and it was in how to become self employed and go about getting their first jobs by writing off to planning concents and then how to get the curators to alow them to do the jobs as obviously their degrees and often considereable field experience was never quite good enough to do even a simple watching brief without a lot of wailing to the mostly BA curators.
I have trained others but it seems to me that if you are not eligible to undertake your own contract I dont see how you could be called an archaeologist.
Thanks for the thumbs up tmsarch I cant help but feel that a lot of this field experience is all about finding out what the status quo is and I dont think that its that complicated -two or three features a day clean your loose up take out a few numbers do that three days in a row and watch out that the supervisors/old lags dont put you down as a trouble maker.
How should British Archaeology be run - Gilraen - 4th September 2012
Wax Wrote:Train the trainers!!!!!! I have never got my head round the fact that those who teach under graduates ( and post grads) do not have professional teaching qualifications. How the hell does that work? Teaching is a skill that needs to be taught to those who provide training. Cost effective in the long run as those being trained might actually learn some thing.
Yes! Not sure what it is like now (any recent graduates out there?) but how clued up are university lecturers on how a commercial archaeology site is run (from a simple watching brief to a complicated excavation)? I was lucky with my Uni, my lecturers seemed to be quite clued up on basic excavation techniques, but I have heard some horror stories of some really famous names back in the day who couldn't tell their arse from a context sheet. But I guess they always had an 'old lag' henchman behind them to do all the real work! }
How should British Archaeology be run - BAJR - 4th September 2012
If you are about Kevin in SCotland
How should British Archaeology be run - Wax - 4th September 2012
So what do people think about the NVQ in archaeology that is available ( at a price but a hell of a lot cheaper than a degree). Does it make you employable as an field archaeologist or is it a "Noddy" qualification? I ask because I know several amateurs who have taken it and they believe it means something. I am not sure it does.:face-huh:
How should British Archaeology be run - kevin wooldridge - 4th September 2012
The Framework for Higher Eduacation qualiifcations (FHEQ) gives a rough comparison between the education attainment value of various qualifications. On that basis a NVQ is level 3 or 4 and a Bachelor degree level 6, a Masters level 7 and a Phd level 8. Clearly not a 'noddy qualification', but clearly also one that the powers that be value somewhat lower than an undergraduate degree...
...so in professional terms that is 2 levels lower than being able to ask with a degree of confidence whether the customer would like fries with that burger!! }
How should British Archaeology be run - kevin wooldridge - 4th September 2012
BAJR Wrote:If you are about Kevin in SCotland
Could you write to me off line about it David. I would be very interested if it fits with my current commitments. I feel a little guilty for not having dedicated any volunteer time at all yet this year. And its only a short hop across the drink from Bergen to any number of Scottish airports....