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+--- Thread: Druids and Avebury Reburial (/showthread.php?tid=1272)
Druids and Avebury Reburial - YellowPete - 20th March 2009
Well there is the concern for the Miner effect as the city Minister, where he said those smart people got fred's pension past him without him knowing till it was too late.
But to be honest, I don't think that is the case.
This is serious in its implication, but both intellectually and spiritually.
Ethics would be the reasoning behind why to elevate one over the other, given any situation.
Unless of course, spiritual is of equal to an ethic of any given situation and thus requires continual mediation with all situations.
The only thing here is that this would require continual monitoring, and a serious mutual monitoring on just that prose and basis at that.
But for a more integrated approach, before reaching this point in any negotiation, I fear that the spirituality would be required to be a real consideration, prior to to the final discussion and decision.
Its almost like saying 'now we are about to flip a coin I want to hold a conference'.
The integration of viewpoints requires earlier engagement with any given process.
This is already done and conducted, so I guess your asking for direct involvement.
In this case we all live in a representative society and our individual opinions cannot always be taken on board as to sway the final synopsis enough, from the other issues brought to bear.
Its sad, but it's a fact of life
txt is
Mike
Druids and Avebury Reburial - YellowPete - 20th March 2009
personally I know what it feels like to treated like a crank and a crack pot in the eyes of a status quo.
:face-confused:
txt is
Mike
Druids and Avebury Reburial - gorilla - 20th March 2009
Quote:quoteoes anyone else thank that archaeology without due consideration for ethics and spirituality is akin to cultural shoplifting when the owners back is turned?
Errr... no. In my 25 years or more in archaelogy, I've met just a handfull of people who see it as just a job. Of this handful, only one or two couldn't give a sh*t about the archaeology they excavated.
Most (if not all) modern archaeologists undertake archaeological excavation and recording, do it ethically (if not, then we would be little better than grave robbers, tomb raiders and artefact collectors). We don't just dig things for fun and just because it is there. We'd rather have the stuff left in the ground, untouched and 'pure' (ie following PPG16's remit of preservation in situ). More often than not, we undertake excavation because there is (usually) a threat to the archaeology from more unthinking, more progressive and, unfortunately, more unscrupulous individuals / companies. Which would you rather have... us doing it (people who actually care about the past) or just letting it be trashed by those who don't really care as long as they get their (company / government) project built?
As for spirituality... I know a lot of archaeologists who are spiritual without being religious. People who care about their impact on the world - whether it be small-scale (ie how to dig a skeleton) or in the wider sphere of their impact on the environment as a whole. Some actually follow set religious doctrine and are practising in whatever thing that grabs their soul (be-it Christianity, Islam and Paganism). Some don't... I'm an atheist yet spiritual. I don't need a religion to steer me on the righteous path. I do what ever I think right by me and others (whether alive or dead). Don't think for one second that I don't care about what, or rather whoever, I dig up. I do it with grace, thoughfulness and rigourous technique.
It's in our blood to try and record systematically, ethically and without bias. As archaeologists, we don't commit cultural theft... we try to allieviate the damages of cultural selfishness, cultural naivety and "I just don't give a cullural sh*t!"
BTW... who exactly are the owners? The bods in the ground? They are dead... they don't act, think or feel anymore. If they do have a spirit hovering somewhere up in the ether, then yes I know they would rather be left where they were interred. But unfortunately, some people just don't give a toss about that... they want their supa-dooper MacD's built... right here, right now.
"I hope one day chickens will be able to cross the road without having their motives questioned" Anon
Druids and Avebury Reburial - YellowPete - 20th March 2009
ownership would be the related bargining of worth of an exchanged value, but in terms of the ancestors, as with the earth, they far predate our current concepts of negotiated value and ownership.
They may pre-date, in some form of echo of our current ideas, but by the nature of them being our ancestors, we are connected as tentatively to them as we are to each of us still here and now, to differential levels.
So I guess as long as we look at in terms of exteneded, relatively perceived distance and connection then we own our present, but we have yet to negotiate its worth to make a decision on that one.
txt is
Mike
Druids and Avebury Reburial - Curator Kid - 20th March 2009
YAWN!
I think the only thing this thread has actually achieved is to convince me to be cremated and scattered when I snuff it, so I can avoid ever being appropriated by anyone.
Druids and Avebury Reburial - RedEarth - 20th March 2009
Quote:quote:Originally posted by Curator Kid
YAWN!
I think the only thing this thread has actually achieved is to convince me to be cremated and scattered when I snuff it, so I can avoid ever being appropriated by anyone.
Here, here.
Although I might go for being buried with a big lead plaque reading 'These are my mortal remains, anyone found claiming they understand my motivations and religious beliefs better than I did in life, can f**k off!'
Druids and Avebury Reburial - tom wilson - 20th March 2009
Quote:quote:Originally posted by Oddie
Does anyone else thank that archaeology without due consideration for ethics and spirituality is akin to cultural shoplifting when the owners back is turned?
Odd
Oddie
:face-stir:
Oddie, notwithstanding the fact that your definition of spirituality is entirely one's own concern, I expect we all think that. It doesn't make your argument any more valid.
freeburmarangers.org
Druids and Avebury Reburial - YellowPete - 20th March 2009
not to say anyone is a crank or crack pot in this discussion
txt is
Mike
Druids and Avebury Reburial - Dirty Dave Lincoln - 20th March 2009
As prehistoric human remains are the ancestors of all of us and not just modern Druids or any other people who are religious minded, then the arguement that such folks cannot have sole claim to the final say on the disposition of said remains does have some validity.
But equally so the remains are the ancestors of people from the scientific community as well- so both groups don't have sole claim to them.
If anything, a consensus of oppinion should be sought from society as a whole.
Druids and Avebury Reburial - BAJR Host - 20th March 2009
a consensus of oppinion should be sought from society as a whole. agreed
though I am now going to shoot myself out a cannon..! (a la Hunter S.) that should sort the problem for me at least.
?When a sinister person means to be your enemy, they always start by trying to become your friend.?
William Blake