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+--- Thread: Archaeology... it's the future! (/showthread.php?tid=1163)
Archaeology... it's the future! - m300572 - 22nd October 2008
I love the idea of an archaeocurator... I sort of imagine a blob with lots of arms and two heads?
Ah, so you've met Mr Hosty then...........!!
Archaeology... it's the future! - BAJR Host - 22nd October 2008
I weep with self pity ! cruel... so cruel!
"I don't have an archaeological imagination.."
Borekickers
Archaeology... it's the future! - gorilla - 22nd October 2008
Point 6. I hate to say it, but professions with chartered status still start at a low point. Land/building survey companies routinely take on people and pay them G1 wages. Likewise for pupillages in law. Its around the middle/top end that the difference is most acute; i.e. where the actual chartering is.
That is where we have an upper hand (sort of). Land/building surveyors and lawyers have been paying like that for years. It is the way things are (and a status quo they'd like probably to maintain). Perhaps (and this is pie-in-the-sky)... with a new, improved and fluffy IfA we set the standard wage (the right pay) right at the beginning. I can only hope.
Point 10. This is already a legal right.
Yes, it is (and rightly so). But past experience has taught me that some units / employers frown upon union membership. This is particularly true of my past experiences with some contracting units. In some places, there was even a climate of "there's militants in our offices (reds under the bed)" and that the process of becoming a union member was done very hush-hush. Maybe I'm an old throw back to Maggies 80's... but in the past, I've been wary of applying for jobs and mentioning membership of a union. To be honest, it is now probably nothing more than paranoical figment of my fevered imagination... but it has its roots the actual world. In my perfect world (which doesn't exist) I should feel free to join, without any stigma attached.
Archaeology... it's the future! - Paul Belford - 22nd October 2008
In your ideal world you wouldn't have to join because your pay, conditions, training opportunities, career structure and grievance procedures would all be so marvellous anyway!
:face-stir:
Archaeology... it's the future! - gorilla - 22nd October 2008
In your ideal world you wouldn't have to join because your pay, conditions, training opportunities, career structure and grievance procedures would all be so marvellous anyway!
Ooooh, that hurt!
But yeah, in my world no-one would feel pee'd off.
Archaeology... it's the future! - oldgirl - 22nd October 2008
Quote:quote:Originally posted by gorilla
In your ideal world you wouldn't have to join because your pay, conditions, training opportunities, career structure and grievance procedures would all be so marvellous anyway!
Ooooh, that hurt!
But yeah, in my world no-one would feel pee'd off.
Bet someone would! They'd say how boring it was not to have anyone to fight!
Archaeology... it's the future! - Paul Belford - 22nd October 2008
Actually on second thoughts people will always be pee'd off because standards will rise inexorably. It's a bit like people now EXPECT to have double glazing and central heating, whereas 30 years ago they were luxuries.
So no doubt, in gorilla's future world, someone will need to bring the union in because... their colleague got four pairs of free socks per month whereas they only got three; or because their colleague went on a training course every two weeks and he only went once a month; or because he felt that a 300% final salary pension was derisory compared to the 400% offered to architects.
We can always dream...
Archaeology... it's the future! - gorilla - 22nd October 2008
So no doubt, in gorilla's future world, someone will need to bring the union in because... their colleague got four pairs of free socks per month whereas they only got three; or because their colleague went on a training course every two weeks and he only went once a month; or because he felt that a 300% final salary pension was derisory compared to the 400% offered to architects.
Point taken. But, as I said 'tis my flight-of-fantasy world that doesn't (and will never) exist. Personally, I'd like a 3 to 4% rise in my salary just to afford the mortgage (wooo... I actually have a mortgage, now not many archaeologist can say that) and at least two new pairs of socks.
In starting this thread I asked (sort of) "what would you do to change things?". Waiting... still waiting. Any ideas?
Is there any point being here (BAJR) if we just persist in regurgitating our gripes and epithets about the past, present and future of archaeology? Is that all this forum is for? Instead of stating the oh-so-bl**dy obvious problems, perhaps we should be trying to initiate ways to get out of the bl**dy mess we are in... and once stated, perhaps have the decency to actually act on them.
Archaeology... it's the future! - chiz - 22nd October 2008
I'd like to see a lot of those points, but I'd also like archaeology not to slip too far into aping certain standard construction/engineering practices. Those include working 7.30 to 5.30 every weekday, saturdays til one, sundays/nights when required (for nightworks/piling/crane deliveries etc), not being able to take leave because of projects, and then losing all accrued leave etc.
Now I've had/done all the above, but it wasn't usual practice by any means and I got a good deal on overtime most of the time I had no choice. We do get a good deal in some ways, I quite like my 8 til 4 with long breaks. And compared to the wages paid to site engineers etc when they start, my pay was ok. Things have come on a lot in the last decade, but some things haven't.
Hopefully something will be done about 'away jobs', that seems one of the most pressing issues to me, along with training which I feel is the crux issue. Until a system of training and experience/skill recognition gets sorted, and is tied in to universities and units, it will all carry on as it does now. The pyramid of experience will continue to be as skewed as it is, with fresh faces every summer desperate for work, but with no effective training, and the good people leaving because they are fed up at being paid the same and being taken for granted. It's just unfortunate that so many units assume that as long as they have a couple of old lags, they can get sites dug, as so much of archaeology is just emptying holes and putting the pretty things in bags.
Archaeology... it's the future! - oldgirl - 22nd October 2008
Quote:quote:Originally posted by gorilla
So no doubt, in gorilla's future world, someone will need to bring the union in because... their colleague got four pairs of free socks per month whereas they only got three; or because their colleague went on a training course every two weeks and he only went once a month; or because he felt that a 300% final salary pension was derisory compared to the 400% offered to architects.
Point taken. But, as I said 'tis my flight-of-fantasy world that doesn't (and will never) exist. Personally, I'd like a 3 to 4% rise in my salary just to afford the mortgage (wooo... I actually have a mortgage, now not many archaeologist can say that) and at least two new pairs of socks.
In starting this thread I asked (sort of) "what would you do to change things?". Waiting... still waiting. Any ideas?
Is there any point being here (BAJR) if we just persist in regurgitating our gripes and epithets about the past, present and future of archaeology? Is that all this forum is for? Instead of stating the oh-so-bl**dy obvious problems, perhaps we should be trying to initiate ways to get out of the bl**dy mess we are in... and once stated, perhaps have the decency to actually act on them.
Perhaps part of the problem is that much of what many of us seem to do to move things forwards disappears because they are just small things, which is why we expect more from the IfA. Personally, I've been involved in settng up a contracting unit which attempted to treat its staff well and pay them as well as could be achieved, with permanent contracts (partly because we were staff too!) because we thoought that was reasonable. Didn't always succeed mind you! Personally, I've been on IPMS (now prospect) committees, and on IfA council, validation and RAO commitees. Didn't always get the chance to get what I wanted through but, to be honest, part of that was because other people didn't agree with me, and there were more of them! (B****y democracy, don't you just hate it!)
Part of the reason I come and read and post here is that there is interesting discussion and points of view and I often have my mind changed, or at least become far better informed, on many subjects.
So my future will still definitely have BAJR in it as well as other things. As to what I'm going to do about it, I'll keep on doing my best to think about the issues and keep an open mind, not just stick my head in the sand and moan. (Well, not often anyway....)