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BAJR union... - gumbo - 2nd December 2008
I have been a member of IPMS/Prospect for a number of years and, apart from a period of about two years in 2000'ish have never seen or felt much targetted or proactive work from them. I have never had to use them for support so cant really comment on that.
However, I'd like to say that I see no reason why BAJR could not begin an effective union. Far from being a 'splitter' group I think BAJR is the single most coherent forum for the archaeological worker and it is well established. Yes, it is a legal minefield and, yes, there are issues of democracy/represenativeness and David's time to take into account. But, given what BAJR does already, and the ineffectual nature of the organisations available to the archaeologist at present, i think it is certainly not unhealthy to consider the creation of new groups and certainly not counter-productive.
Perhaps some sort of partnership with an existing union could be a way forward? That would potentially provide paid positions.
Anyway just a thought, ill now return to my apathetic moaning.
BAJR union... - gorilla - 2nd December 2008
I don't agree that a union should be formed from here... at best, BAJR should be a pressure group.
As for a common agenda... I think we are [u]all</u> agreed that UK archaeology is in a pretty crap state (and has been for a while).
Just by us being here - voicing our gripes, grumbles, diatribe and epithets proves that BAJR is more than just a "job site". I feel that it does (and should) have an influence in archaeology beyond mere advertising job specs and contact details... we are on this Forum for some reason - unless you come here just to fill in some down-time from the day job, just like the rhythm of yer own writing (move over Shakespear) or, as is quite likely now, somewhere to fill in time before signing on.
Where else should we go to voice our concerns? Where else gives you the opportunity? Where else is it likely that someone (a higher, management-type being) might actually read this? If some like Kathryn from the IfA posts to this Forum, then she MUST actually look at some of the other messages as well. She might actually provide feed-back to other IfA'ers as well. Heaven forbid, they might actually listen to her! Blimey, some of them might actually come here without her having to say anything! And, blimey, maybe one of them might actually change something one day.
I, for one, am proud to be a BAJR-ite. I may not be representative of archaeologists as a whole (I haven't touched mud for years), but I like to think at least I have my fellow archaeologists' concerns at heart. I'm also concerned about where archaeology is going (hence my "what do you think archaeology will be like in 5 to 10 years time?" thread). I also quite like to talk about archaeology now and again.
More than just a sheep, bleating on a hill
BAJR union... - gonetopot - 2nd December 2008
Well said gorilla. Lets face it, rarely are the various opinions on this forum in agreement but it does allow for a range of informed and (usually) coherent views to be aired, considered and then used to lobby with under the BAJR banner. That this is so is entirely down to the work of the Host and his assistants. I don;t think the voice of BAJR needs to be tied down by any further changes of practice (ie. Unions etc), that is already one of the problems of many of the organisations that people complain are ineffective. BAJR is and i'm sure will remain dynamic, but at the moment its open forum and voice are a great demonstration of its success. And to back gorilla, I know several people within the IFA who not only make a point of reading BAJR when they have a moment but actively monitor what is said.
BAJR union... - gumbo - 2nd December 2008
Agreed (ish)! I too am proud to label myself a BAJR-ite and dont think this requires us to unite our views, only our overall approach to professional archaeology (often bottom-up, and always inclusive IMHO).Perhaps you have convinced me that BAJR is more effective as an independent lobby. However, I still certainly think that there is scope, outside of existing organisations, for an effective union: there is only so much you can polish as s**t, as they say.
BAJR union... - BAJR Host - 2nd December 2008
Something to ponder... a blast from the past (well nearly 5 years ago actually! )
And what has happened? BAJR had to put neck on block and place a pay scale .. that seems to be generally accepted..
BAJR will never be a Union... but it can be a Confederation for those who are not being heard.. and with a mandate from those that want to join and voice opinion... No subs, monthly newsletter.. (telling people what is happening) (hence my thoughts of the revival of the Digger
I found this... getting back to the point...
From Digger 39... 2004
PAY: 'INDUSTRY-WIDE BARGAINING IS THE ANSWER'
Phil Carpenter, Negotiations Officer for Prospect, explains the unionâs latest initiative:
Prospect is the trade union which represents staff in the major archaeological organisations in Great Britain. It has members in the independent contracting bodies and archaeological trusts, all the national museums, English Heritage (EH), Cadw, Historic Scotland, and the Royal Commission on Historic Monuments.
One of the APPAG recommendations is that Prospect, EH, the Institute of Field Archaeologists (IFA) and other national institutions should work towards improving pay and conditions, training and career development for rchaeologists as a matter of urgency.
Both the IFA and the Standing Conference of Archaeological Unit Managers (SCAUM) have objectives which relate to improving pay in archaeology. SCAUM principles of archaeological employment practice include a commitment to 'invest in development and skills, remunerate in line with qualifications, cumulative experience and responsibility'. The IFA Code of Conduct, Principle 5 says: 'the archaeologist shall recognise the aspirations of employees, colleagues and helpers with regard to all matters relating to employment, including career development, health and safety, terms and conditions of employment and equality of opportunity'.
However, these statements have never been turned into reality. The IFA minimum pay guidelines are a welcome underpinning to pay, but they are based upon local authority pay levels and should also include other parts of the local authority remuneration package such as a final salary pension scheme, good annual and sick leave provision and travel and subsistence arrangements. If a true comparison is to be drawn then these factors need to be costed to produce an equivalent total salary package.
Prospect policy is to try to get all units and organisations to raise their pay levels and conditions at the same time. This would remove the excuse that if only some units improve pay then others are given an advantage in a competitive tendering situation.
The solution we propose is 'Industry Wide Collective Bargaining.' There would need to be a formal agreement between two parties: an employers' organisation on one side and a trade union, or group of trade unions on the other. There are already other industries that use such a process; discussions cover such issues as:
pay (including increments / progression and London weighting), sick pay, holidays, hours etc.
Before this process could become a reality there are a number of hurdles to overcome, not least who would form the employer group at the negotiations. At the moment no one organisation covers all employing units. The IFA Registered Archaeological Organisations (RAOs) cover most of the largest organisations and SCAUM covers most of the other employers and units too.
Prospect has agreed to work with the RAOs and SCAUM to see if a common approach can enable a suitable employers' organisation to be formed and appropriate mechanisms for the purposes of Industry Wide pay negotiations.
After the APPAG Report there is a unique opportunity that should be taken by all parties if they truly want to see pay and conditions improved. The alternative is that we accept low pay and poor conditions as the natural state of affairs in archaeology. We all know that things must change. If industry wide bargaining is not the answer, then what is the alternative? And if we donât take this opportunity for change, then will change ever be possible?
Phil Carpenter, Prospect.
"Gie's a Job.."
Prof. 'Dolly' Parton
BAJR union... - monty - 2nd December 2008
I remember this but im unaware of any opportunities changed or effects it has had. Also count me in as a definite BAJRite !!!
BAJR union... - BAJR Host - 2nd December 2008
Looks like we may have a voice
"Gie's a Job.."
Prof. 'Dolly' Parton
BAJR union... - kevin wooldridge - 3rd December 2008
Quote:quote:Originally posted by voice of reason
Kevin That is the fundamental issue - I'm afarid that there is no such thing as a "BAJR-ite" - don't count me into some collective sentiment that there is a common agenda here.
I would describe myself as undeterred VoR.... and as an inclusivist, I am happy for you to come along for the ride. I mean your opinions are at least reflected on BAJR. One of the points that many people have been making in the past few weeks is how disenfranchised they feel from other official bodies in UK archaeology at this difficult time.
In fact it is at this difficult time BAJR has already proved that it is something unique in our profession. I haven't seen a single comment posted on Britarch, on the IFA website or on Prospect's site regarding the current problems in our profession. If BAJR achieves nothing else, at least it there for archaeologists to contact, to air and discuss their problems, get updates on how the recession is affecting the wider industry, hopefully feel that there is a small community of archaeologists who sympathise with their predicament. Basically the idea that there might be some mates out there.....
So go on VoR. Admit that you are a little bit proud to be involved with your fellow sufferers......if not totally convinced of our ambition}
BAJR union... - monty - 3rd December 2008
Indeed there are mates out there ! myself and many colleagues do feel disenfranchised and disillusioned with our lack of voice. BAJR is definitely the place to air and discuss problems and the recognised pay scales issue speaks for itself. We need strength and unity to even begin to effect any changes. . .
BAJR union... - BAJR Host - 3rd December 2008
Quote:quote: I haven't seen a single comment posted on Britarch, on the IFA website or on Prospect's site regarding the current problems in our profession.
Something which I have noticed too... perhaps it reflects the people who use these mediums?
The CBA are happy about their new website.. while archaeological carnage rages around the commercial world... etc
"Gie's a Job.."
Prof. 'Dolly' Parton