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+--- Thread: Pay and Conditions (/showthread.php?tid=2390)
Pay and Conditions - salmonpuff - 9th November 2009
Hmmmm, this is a hard one. I had the same conversation with someone over lunch earlier.
I have bills to pay, so a pay cut right now would be catastrophic. But this is coming from someone who is currently being taxed at basic rate, so its still a struggle even without a cut in pay.
But then again, as someone in their first commercial contract and desperate to get as much experience as they can. And someone who actually lives for and loves doing this, if it was possible I would do it for free. Even if I had to work full time at McDonalds *ew* to pay the rent, and volunteer on days off...I would do it for free.
But still, bills and whatnot
I might be looking at it through rose tinted glasses however...being a fresh faced newb and all that
Pay and Conditions - Mattymooface - 9th November 2009
I think we all love it or we wouldn't get so angry when things are done and people are treated so badley
We have allways been paid worst than most people on site but this doesn't make it right, i've noticed the lack of accomindation offered on recent jobs and theres allways the question is the company claiming it and not passing it on to the staff.
Subs and accomindation cost are standard for all the ground workers and machaine drivers, we are part of the construction proccess and should have the same benifits, but how do we get it accross
Pay and Conditions - salmonpuff - 9th November 2009
Drunky Wrote:I think we all love it or we wouldn't get so angry when things are done and people are treated so badley
Ah, I haven't come across the accomodation issue yet. I guess I'm kind of lucky that where I am, the unit digs either in the city or just outside so its reachable and can go home at the end of the day.
I've always wondered why archaeology is so badly paid? The builders on the Tudor House site today are on almost twice as much money...which doesn't seem very fair, and they seem to be treated much better too...with their own staff room etc etc etc.
Pay and Conditions - Geli - 9th November 2009
just ask this question. If all the current field archaeologist are driven out of commercial archaeology - who will you newb's learn from. Another point to make is that although you'd do it for free one day a week commercial projects would not accommodate you're proposed work pattern. A dedicated professional work force is needed to meet the requirements of commercial contracts - it can't be done as an academic jolly. Unfortunately if things continue down the path they are we're gonna end up with a unskilled and inexperienced workforce, which will be to the detriment of British archaeology!
Pay and Conditions - Mattymooface - 9th November 2009
I ve alays wondered that to, sometimes i think its because many people in managment grew up in there carrers when archaeology wasn't part of the construction industry so don't really understand what a modern site crew needs.
But also it comes down to competitive tendering there alway some one who will do it cheaper and the builders are choising based cost
Mainly there only putting up with archaeology to satisfy the planning conditions they most likly don't know or care how the work is carried out as long as it cheap and doesn't get in there way to much.
Pay and Conditions - benmoore - 9th November 2009
Well, I tend to accept pay cuts in the same way I accept pay increases. It's so random that I have to just be happy when it goes up and pissed off when it goes down. If I only accepted jobs when I was paid more than the last one I'd either be rich or unemployed. I'm guessing that I'd be unemployed... I have minimums obviously. I certainly don't have maximums! There's certainly no lovely smooth pay curve in this job. As long as I don't think I'm being taken advantage of I'll take a job. Of course I have standards. I wouldn't work for below the BAJR guidelines. Of course, if we had an effective and knowledgeable union we could sort the bastards out. Until then I'll use my own judgement I guess. And sometimes that means being paid less than the last job. Sorry. Boring post. Obvious answer.
Pay and Conditions - salmonpuff - 9th November 2009
Benmoore Wrote:Well, I tend to accept pay cuts in the same way I accept pay increases. It's so random that I have to just be happy when it goes up and pissed off when it goes down. If I only accepted jobs when I was paid more than the last one I'd either be rich or unemployed. I'm guessing that I'd be unemployed... I have minimums obviously. I certainly don't have maximums! There's certainly no lovely smooth pay curve in this job. As long as I don't think I'm being taken advantage of I'll take a job. Of course I have standards. I wouldn't work for below the BAJR guidelines. Of course, if we had an effective and knowledgeable union we could sort the bastards out. Until then I'll use my own judgement I guess. And sometimes that means being paid less than the last job. Sorry. Boring post. Obvious answer.
actually, this was well said *applauds*
Pay and Conditions - benmoore - 9th November 2009
Thanks!
Pay and Conditions - Johanna - 10th November 2009
Maybe here a comment from Germany: we have got lots of excavations where none of the undergraduates gets payed. Well, they have to do it anyway and therefore are willing to work without any money. But as soon as you have reached a certain degree of education I find it quite hard to not get payed at least a little. Prices are in any case very very low in archaeology, so I go at least partly with Kevin - if payment is cut, why not start with the managers... in any case one has to be able to earn a living at a certain point in his or her life. Maybe the hardest thing is always to convince whoever is paying for the whole job (building company, state, whoever) that archaeology is not just funny messing around with trowels and brushes but a job and a quite hard one if done properly, worth paying an adequate amount of money. Other way round: there are lots of archaeologists who mess around for ages not working properly and taking more time than required. I therefore can understand that people get mad on them... so coming back to the topic... it's in my opinion always worth looking on both side of the coin (don't know if you use this saying in English, it's very German...
) but in the end I am absolutely for not cutting payments, especially if the job is done really good and in an adequate amount of time! Quality has its price.
Pay and Conditions - BAJR Host - 10th November 2009
Well said Jo, and others. This discussion looks at the very heart of a decades old issue that has often be looked at but never grasped and challenged.
Taking a couple of points from Jo. It is something that we in the UK could start looking at... Students on apprenticeships (though a bit of cash would be good!! ) being trained by professionals who are themselves trained to do that. Good god.. sounds like professionalism and alternative routes!
Jo Wrote:but in the end I am absolutely for not cutting payments, especially if the job is done really good and in an adequate amount of time! Quality has its price.
There you have it... What is your price.. what is your bottom line.. and what at the end of the day is the price of quality, rather than cubic metres of soil moved in x number of days.
Perhaps if cuts happen - then they may be more acceptable if
a) they were time limited and return to the previous level was required before any rise in rates.
b) they were across the board - and indeed... starting at the top. :0