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+--- Thread: Double Standards (/showthread.php?tid=3385)
Double Standards - Dinosaur - 18th August 2010
HER data in Britain is getting far too public as it is, most of it is of no value to the 'public' (who are not, by and large, impressed by a ploughed field even if it does happen to have a villa under it), hence not obvious why in the 'public' domain, just helps night-hawkers....sorry, responsible treasure-hunters :face-stir:
Double Standards - stinker pinker - 18th August 2010
there is another group of people who may be intersted in HER data... archaeologists. even a commercial shovel monkey like me can take an interest in their local history, especially places where i have recently dug, or am about to. given that i spend office hours in a field in the middle of nowhere, miles from any HER office, the opportunity to access information at home, on the internet, at leisure is a most welcome development
Double Standards - FedUp - 18th August 2010
Have you asked to look at DBA for the sites you work on?
The point isn't that no one would be interested or that people shouldn't be allowed to see it but surely you wouldn't want to actively encourage the opportunity for fresh sites to be looted? Surely it happens enough already? I know that there are some responsible metal-detectorists out there but picking new sites out for those that aren't seems pointless.
I would have thought there ware already several on-line resources from which you could research the localities in which you work without the need to identify every potential site in the country.
Whilst i'm worried that this might seem like we're trying to keep sites from the general public, like Dinosaur said, i don't think that most people actually would be all that interested. Perhaps i just have a cynical and suspicious nature but i think that its the 'wrong'uns' that would make most use of it!
Double Standards - Stephen Jack - 18th August 2010
1 The law is not fit for purpose and needs testing.
2 (Treasure map), there will be a shift in GPS readings, therefore anyone wanting to use the data will have to contact the provider of the data to have access to the correct coordinates.
3 I did outline the search method that works, 1m coil on a Minelab Sovereign.
Double Standards - stinker pinker - 18th August 2010
Quote:Have you asked to look at DBA for the sites you work on?
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha... oh wait, you were being serious! Yes i do ask for dbas, although i would usually have to wait three months after completion of the site for them to be written, and even then they are usually back of envelope affairs written by whichever specialist has not much on that week.
anyway, that is an aside from my main point, which was that there are potentially enough people out there wanting to read this stuff to make its publication worth while. i think we could perhaps also credit "the public" with not all being illiterate ill-informed thieving yobbos with no discernable interest in the world beyond their garden gates. some of them may even be quite civilised.
and no, i do not want to and never have actively encouraged the looting of sites.
Double Standards - FedUp - 18th August 2010
ERm....may i suggest you work for a different unit then? Do you just dig random sites without the known potential for archaeology? If not the dba try the project brief?
What purpose would the majority of your civilised, literate, well-informed public use the sites for? I'm not suggesting they don't want to know what sites are in their area, but presumably they'd rather know about actual sites that have been dug and can be shown to be an actual thing rather than a potential site defined from AP??
Perhaps the ignorance is mine here? I already know of a number of responsible groups and societies that identify sites from fieldwalking and just don't see how this website would really help in a positive manner.
But hey. at least you don't promote looting!
Double Standards - Jack - 19th August 2010
Stephen Jack Wrote:1 The law is not fit for purpose and needs testing.
2 (Treasure map), there will be a shift in GPS readings, therefore anyone wanting to use the data will have to contact the provider of the data to have access to the correct coordinates.
3 I did outline the search method that works, 1m coil on a Minelab Sovereign.
So you are intending to provide other 'treasure hunters' information on the location of potentially new archaeological sites so they can go along and dig into them willy nilly is search of stuff they can sell?
Or do I misunderstand?
Presumably you'd then declare the finds within the treasure-trove law?
Double Standards - Oxbeast - 19th August 2010
Jack, his examples of future projects are in France and Italy, and he seems to be adopting the risky strategy of just doing what he wants and then inviting prosecution. I thought that using metal detectors in France was illegal, as in Ireland, unless you have some kind of special permission from a representative of the secretary of state. I seem to remember the last time that the France/metal detector situation situation came up on this forum and a detectorist was unhappy with it, I pointed out the if the French people don't like their law, there are democratic ways to change it.
Stephen, it seems to be the height of hubris to announce that another country's laws are not fit for purpose, and that you are going to break them (possibly) to test them. If they did decide to prosecute you, they've got all the evidence they need on this forum that you knew what you were doing.
Double Standards - Stephen Jack - 19th August 2010
Jack
Archaeologists need to break out form their negative, closed narrow view of the world and look at what is happening around them. Read the Open Source section of 'The Autonomous Treasure Hunter' and pay particular attention to the Red Lake example. In many ways this is a good example of what Archaeology can achieve if it is prepared to share data.
Open Source
When you have an idea such as building an autonomous vehicle how can you do it without spending large quantities of cash, go Open Souce (OS) ?
“Times they are a changin” Bob Dylan
This subject of OS is so dam crazy. Why give away ideas, code, programs, data, for free? Thats basically what is happening in the world of “Open Source”, its 80s free gaming utopia gone mad.
“Why, Mr. Anderson, why? why, why do you do it?” Matrix Revolutions
Ideas only have a value when acted on, is this the “time value of Open Source”, a maximization of time by going OS. I keep looking at OS and try to see what its all about, where is it going.
OS example
www.diydrones.com
Product development OS variant
http://www.gizmoforyou.com
Red Lake OS variant
http://www.troymedia.com/?p=3022
Could OS end duopoly and monopolies?
When Hexagon acquired Leica in 2005 the primary reason for the acquisition was to kill off competition in machine guidance(information for inside Hexagon). Its acquisition of Rinex agricultural machine guidance in 2008 maybe the same, its very likely the Agri boys were squashing Hexagon in Australian mines hence the take over. Where is this going you may ask, extra cost on major construction projects, barriers to innovation, barriers to the developing world. Can OS bypass companies like Hexagon and put machine guidance on my bobcat for a sensible price?
Could OS philosophy be used to solve puzzles such as Atlantis?
The OS world is so dynamic its frightening, it is also rather difficult to benefit from if you try to access information in areas where you do not already have the skills to understand, modify and implement the information. OS as it appears currently is not the final utopia in my opinion; fragmentation and diversity may be a great benefit, but it also means it has lots of small spheres of influence, which are not currently penetrating much beyond the geek world.
Double Standards - Jack - 19th August 2010
I think you misunderstand me now....
I'm all for Open Sourcing, yay for open-sourced office programs!
All archaeologists share data, its called 'publishing'. Also the grey literature produced is open to the public to view.
I noticed you failed to answer my question too?
I fail to see what saving a 'dying gold mine' has to do with disturbing archaeological sites?