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+--- Thread: what to do about any developers who dont pay up (/showthread.php?tid=5078)
what to do about any developers who dont pay up - Dinosaur - 26th September 2013
Unitof1 Wrote:I know of plenty of properties that have been sold on with any sign of a report.
We've had a client commission a DBA which we'd, errr, already done for the previous landowner about a year before...[and no, PP, we didn't fleece them by 'doing it again', always a good start to a client relationship by pointing out that they're wasting their money, pretty much guarantees getting all the follow up phases]
what to do about any developers who dont pay up - kevin wooldridge - 26th September 2013
Dare I be the first person to ask Uo1 whether the failure of the commisioner to pay his bills had anything to do with the expected work not being up to the required standard? Otherwise I refer you to Matthew 26:52 (King James Version)....
what to do about any developers who dont pay up - P Prentice - 26th September 2013
surely [TABLE="align: center"]
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[TD]ALL is best, though we oft doubt,[/TD]
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[TD]What th' unsearchable dispose[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
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[TD]Of highest wisdom brings about,[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
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[TD]And ever best found in the close.[/TD]
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what to do about any developers who dont pay up - RedEarth - 26th September 2013
Unitof1 Wrote:I would say half of them have never been sold on and the other half have involved people going bust, divorces, neighbours falling out and two have died and I don't feel like its a reason of doing archaeology to make these people pay with threatening legal action.
You've been pretty unlucky in that case then, obviously chasing the newly divorced or newly deceased is never going to be much fun. Although, chasing the newly divorced might be fun if the Benny Hill music was playing at the time.
what to do about any developers who dont pay up - RedEarth - 26th September 2013
ecmgardner Wrote:I have used the small claims court on a couple of occasions (neither time was to do with my archaeology work) and both times it was neither time consuming or expensive as it's designed to negate the need for paying a solicitor. You can file your claims online and the fee is both nominal and can be added to the costs for the defendant. I won my case both times, the first time I had to attend the court and the second time they settled before going to court. It's much more effective when a notice of intended court proceedings falls on the mat. Cheaper than a solicitors letter and more effective. When you win the court also has powers to do helpful things like freeze all their assets until they pay (if necessary).
Unless stated on your invoices you can only add statutory interest, but you are entitled to also raise penalty invoices too. You would need to check but I believe you can still chase unpaid invoices and issue penalties backdated for 6 years.
This is a great resource of information:
http://payontime.co.uk/late-payment-legislation-interest-calculators
How much are the small claims court fees? A solicitor's letter cost less than £50 and negates the need to go anywhere - so far it is has always been effective (to be honest I've got better things to do than go to a small claims court, and I'm guessing there's no way of forcing the other party to even turn up, which would make it doubly irritating). Either way is good though I'm sure.
There's always a danger with not chasing invoices that it makes it look like a hobby and that we expect to work for free, which then affects everyone, and no-one is making a fortune let's face it.
what to do about any developers who dont pay up - kevin wooldridge - 26th September 2013
I guess its a question of 'big stick, bigger stick' though... a solicitors letter will contain the veiled threat of court action if the claim isn't met, and that will probably be the Small Claims court intitially. One way to avoid it of course is to only accept work from commissioners who belong to some form of trade organisation, Federation of Builders etc or who hold some quality assurance assessment, and could be held 'morally' responsible for the timely payment of bills. If its a question of the morally questionable ripping off the morally reprehensible, who honestly gives a fig. Neither do anything to enhance the reputation of archaeology if thats a matter of concern....
what to do about any developers who dont pay up - ecmgardner - 26th September 2013
Hi RedEarth, I filed the form from the comfort of the spare room/study. Fee was £35 for the first claim (£400) and £60 for the second (£1000).... both were consumer goods issues rather than chasing invoices. There's an incremental fee structure.
I tend to think going small claims is a great way to alienate clients and luckily have never needed to - but would if I had to. I have issued a penalty invoice once to a client who wouldn't return my calls. It worked and I got a call and an explanation (and paid) so I cancelled the penalty. I did learn that solicitors letters seem to be seen as a bit of an idle threat (and I have a very friendly solicitor in the form of my mother-in-law) but court papers tend to be taken seriously.
In the case I went to the court the other party didn't turn up, but that worked in our favour as they counted the case as indisputed gave us the money we claimed, the fees we'd paid, loss of earnings for having to attend court and the cost of mileage to travel plus parking...
I guess it just depends how much the amount you loose is worth to you in time and effort.
what to do about any developers who dont pay up - Unitof1 - 27th September 2013
may I assure kev that everything was done to the lowest standard that I could make up but that it was a standard based on me an archaeologist (definition based on having spent 4 years in a student bar and ten plus years being ripped off in a charity unit) having been there on the ground (and no contract). Where kev might be on to something ad hominem about my sword play is that in some of the cases I did not bill the people. Fally down timber frame for instance. I just couldn't be bothered possibly the archaeology was very boring and I had not the slightest sense of this is what the people want on the mantel piece, but also I basically think that the report is for a bunch of pension grabbers and if they want the report they should pay for it or go and find the money for me.
The fact that they don't pay for the report to me means that they have absolutely no way of valuing these reports or my efforts as an archaeologist. And don't give me all this is for the public, its for some of the public and its for some of the public through treaties and conventions some statutory legal stuff and then buried in regulations in all manor of democratic systems whos authority change daily. But the out come of it all is that it is these authorities that have to get archaeology done. Not me- they have to.*
Whats happened is that once upon a time these reports were produced in-house by people who supped of the public purse and presumably were paid for from taxes by the public. Because they were producing the reports as part of their jobs the reports belonged to the public. Then the standing around having to comunicat with the building trade was apparently privatised and an attempt was made to ground the whole cost on the individual along with the cost of public ownership of the report. but Two individuals were compounded by this action, the developer and the archaeologist. When the archaeology was in-house what the developer gave away was access to the land and payments to the archaeologists to produce the report, but because the archaeologists produced the report it was the archaeologists report and because the archaeologist worked (presumably salaried) for the government the report belonged to the government.
*What we have now is that the developer has to give access and pay for the archaeology to be done and then has to give the report away in effect for free but rather I have to give my report away for free. oh yes I have no contracts but I think that if the curators want these reports they should contact the little old lady who has cancer.
what to do about any developers who dont pay up - P Prentice - 27th September 2013
your past is my past - so stop bleating
what to do about any developers who dont pay up - Wax - 27th September 2013
The report should be costed separately with a minimum set that includes the basics for a site with nowt of much interest. Everything on top of that would be according to what is anticipated factoring in specialist reports or as a day rate. The client might not see this break down but surely it should be there in your project design?