+- BAJR Federation Archaeology (http://www.bajrfed.co.uk)
+-- Forum: BAJR Federation Forums (http://www.bajrfed.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: The Site Hut (http://www.bajrfed.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?fid=7)
+--- Thread: Geographic Areas of Competence (/showthread.php?tid=817)
Geographic Areas of Competence - diggingthedirt - 14th February 2008
I would agree with that. I think its important to start by saying Iâm reading all this as relating to âpeople in significant positions of responsibilityâ. I had no experience of wetland archaeology before coming here to Ireland, but now have a semi-permanent dose of trench foot for several months of the year. My experience of urban archaeology on the other hand is almost exclusively derived from the UK. Motorways tend to bypass the urban sprawl, and thatâs the kind of work Iâm most involved in.
Perhaps geographical areas of competency should be reconsidered instead as landscapes of competency. In contrary to Peterâs point that Viking urban deposits will be the same in Ireland as in Britain, I would say that an awareness of the specifics of that kind of archaeology allows us to see the nuanced differences between the two, just as it is to walk down the streets of York and Dublin today.
There is a more general point being raised in regard to market regulation, and the barrier to entry that geographical areas of competency would create. The licence system is a âgeographical area of competencyâ based on the individual. The licence holders act like gate-keepers, taking out written contracts with the State that come what may, we will see those projects through from cradle to grave. This is professional regulation without commercial regulation (in your face EU employment directives!) that creates an internal market of supply and demand. There are far too few licensed directors for all the work, and companies can only expand by accumulating more licence holders. In our company of 75 permanent and 200 temporary staff, 15 of us are licence holders. Of all those people, less than a quarter will be Irish. It doesnât inhibit their ability to do their job, and very few would have ambition to become licensed directors, although there is every potential for advancement.
I am firmly of the opinion that competition is good, and only giving work to organisations based in the same area will not ensure quality. But of course there is another barrier to entry and that is capital. Capital decides âwho has the right to work whereâ long before the state gets involved. For very large infrastructural developments, only multiregional organisations could even consider bankrolling such large undertakings without going to the wall. Archaeology is a business created by legislation, provided as a service to customers who perceive no stake-holding in the final product beyond discharging legal requirements in time and on budget. If left unbridled, the commercial imperative will drive down cost and this will inevitably impact quality. Regulation is essential.
Geographic Areas of Competence - BAJR Host - 14th February 2008
Can only but agree with one man... if you dig a deep strat site in Jordan or one in York (or Ireland) its the same concept... it is however different to carry out a survey in the desert adn one in a Scottish Upland enviroment... without 'local' knowledge or advice as to what the sites actually look like... but training allows all members to then get on...
"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu
Geographic Areas of Competence - drpeterwardle - 14th February 2008
Another point of agreement - it is the individuals knowledge that is important not the place where the organisation is located.
Peter
(As everybody know I fundamentally disagree with the statement.
"If left unbridled, the commercial imperative will drive down cost and this will inevitably impact quality. Regulation is essential."
Free market archaeology has resulted in a massive increase in quality and efficiency and at last this is impacting on salaries. I would argue that somebody who knows about a particular type of archaeology will be quicker and thus cheaper in real terms. Thus the free market should increase quality not vice versa)
Geographic Areas of Competence - Unitof1 - 15th February 2008
Just back from the Picos De Europa and Altamira and full of fabada and maxed on Rioja.
Quote:quote: Thoughts? Can a British Archaeologist work abroad?
Whatâs the imaginary tax setup in this scenario?
Geographic Areas of Competence - Paul Belford - 15th February 2008
Peter wrote:
Quote:quote:As everybody know I fundamentally disagree with the statement.
"If left unbridled, the commercial imperative will drive down cost and this will inevitably impact quality. Regulation is essential."
Free market archaeology has resulted in a massive increase in quality and efficiency and at last this is impacting on salaries. I would argue that somebody who knows about a particular type of archaeology will be quicker and thus cheaper in real terms. Thus the free market should increase quality not vice versa)
Whilst 90% of me probably agrees with this in its broadest sense, I have to say that one of the things that really worries me is training for the future. Without ANY regulation of the free market it is very difficult to pay for training, unless all funding for training comes from government (ie. via universities and other schemes such as the EPPIC programme) which I am sure we do not agree with.
I can quite happily decide, as the director of an archaeology unit, to provide £1000-worth of training for each of my staff per year and encourage my clients to pay for this happy in the knowledge that they are getting a better service. But if the director of unit x down the road decides not to do that then he undercuts me. (And, since we are usually in the position of offering a service that no-one actually wants, price is all.) Then I go out of business and my well-trained staff get jobs somewhere else.
This is a big problem all round. The only solution that I can see is a beefed up IFA (which, incidentally, is more closely integrated with other professional bodies in the Historic Environment sector) with a fortified RAO scheme which offers greater barriers to entry to the profession.
Geographic Areas of Competence - BAJR Host - 15th February 2008
I'll go for the beefed up and integrate... ! With training seen as fundamental.
"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu
Geographic Areas of Competence - Unitof1 - 15th February 2008
Quote:quote: And, since we are usually in the position of offering a service that no-one actually wants, price is allSpot on.
Whats really annoying is when the clients arenât bothered in finding a lower quote and stick with the one they have got, wont say how much they are paying or why your lower quote did not win the job.
Geographic Areas of Competence - drpeterwardle - 15th February 2008
I have to say that I fundamentally disagree with what Paul and David are saying.
1. There have been moves to end professional monopolies in things such as law.
2. The private sector trains people regularly why should archaeology be any different?
3. I simply do not believe Paul when he says the cost of training will make the difference to winning or loosing tenders. His firm made a 1.8 million pound surplus in 2004-2005 (and a 100k loss last year). The same is true for all the charities.
4.The cost of employing a digger is as follows:
Digger
Salary 15526
NI 1397
Pension 10% 1553
PPE 100
Payroll 60
Admin 1000
Tools 500
Material 500
Training 1000
Marketing 1000
Finance Charges 1000
Misc 1000
Total 24636
No of weels 42
Cost per working day 112
I cant say what charge rates actually are but they are more than £112.
Peter
Geographic Areas of Competence - BAJR Host - 15th February 2008
certainly more than that
"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu
Geographic Areas of Competence - diggingthedirt - 16th February 2008
Digger salary - 15526
Pension 10% - 1553
Finance Charges 1000
Tools - 500
Training - 1000
That warm glow of job satisfaction stumbling back from the pub with half a kebab and a pocket full of change?
PRICELESS
For everything else thereâs MasterCard