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+--- Thread: Holiday Pay Ruling (/showthread.php?tid=97)
Holiday Pay Ruling - Tile man - 16th March 2006
This may be of interest,
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/life/employment/holidays_and_holiday_pay.htm
especially with regards to the specific instance of 'rolled up' holiday pay
Holiday Pay Ruling - mercenary - 16th March 2006
Reggie and Toby,
I can see the situation is not quite as clear cut as I think. Nevertheless, if I was without a permanent contract and receiving money instead of holiday I would now be campaigning for a rise. But it sounds like I am more adversarial with my employer than you are.
Sorry can't help with sofa's. I hope to get through this life without buying any such thing. (An adversarial relationship with my employer means I may have to leave at a moments notice!)
Holiday Pay Ruling - Toby - 16th March 2006
forum
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Holiday Pay Ruling - mercenary - 17th March 2006
Thinking about your example some more Reggie I am struck by a couple of things.
Quote:quote:When I first worked for the unit I had 3 months digging experience, non of which was gained on commerical contract work. However, I was taken on at the Site Assistant 2 level, not as a trainee.
I was paid ?6.99 an hour for a 37 hour working week, which works out at ?258.63 a week or ?13448.76 pa. Pretty much bang on the lower level of the Site Assistant 2 rate, give or take a tenner a year. On top of this I was paid an additional 0.54 pence per hour in lieu of paid leave, to the equivalent of 1.67 days per month, or 20 days per annum.
- Three months experience is quite a lot when starting out in commercial archaeology. It is certainly not worthy of a trainee position. Would you have accepted a trainee position and wage?
- You were being paid the absolute minimum that they were allowed to by following then current employment law and the IFA minimum pay as an RAO. The supplement was not a perk in any way except for those who want to sell their health for money. Perhaps you didn't need the time off because you were going to be unemployed after [u]2 weeks</u>.
- Even the staunchest IFA defenders on this messageboard seem to agree that the IFA minima are set far too low. Many of us are campaigning to raise them. You, with all due respect, seem happy with your employer paying the minimum. One question - Why?
Holiday Pay Ruling - 1man1desk - 17th March 2006
Quote:quote:Well spotted Mercenary. Guess that throws a spanner in the IFA enhanced benefits proposal as well.
Don't see why. The IFA package recommends a holiday entitlement well ahead of legal requirements, with financial compensation if the holiday entitlement is limited to legal requirements only. This ruling appears to cover pay in lieu of legal requirements.
1man1desk
to let, fully furnished
Holiday Pay Ruling - Reggie - 17th March 2006
Mercenary said
Quote:quote:- Three months experience is quite a lot when starting out in commercial archaeology. It is certainly not worthy of a trainee position. Would you have accepted a trainee position and wage?
From what I can see 3 months non-commercial experience seems to be inadequate for most jobs advertised at Site Assistant 2 level on BAJR. Most adverts request a minimum of 6 months commercial experience. As far as I am aware this particular RAO unit do not have the lower paid trainee position on their pay scale and the Site Assistant 2 is the pay entry level.
After this contract and a few months of unemployment, job applications, letter writing, phone calls direct to units, etc., I was finally offered a job with another unit (non-RAO) in the region. This time my lack of commerical experience did seem to matter and I was taken on as a Trainee with a probationary period of 1 month, which I passed and was then on a semi-permanent contract. The pay rate was somewhere in between Site assistant 1 and 2. Of course I took the job as it was my first decent break into the profession. I was there for around 4 months before I left voluntarily (but that is a whole other story for another thread, perhaps!).
Quote:quote: - You were being paid the absolute minimum that they were allowed to by following then current employment law and the IFA minimum pay as an RAO. The supplement was not a perk in any way except for those who want to sell their health for money. Perhaps you didn't need the time off because you were going to be unemployed after 2 weeks.
I didn't see the extra 0.54 per hour as a perk. It was holiday pay, no more, no less and I have never said otherwise. In reality it wouldn't have made any difference to my final wage packet as it would have been the same amount whether paid as it was or if I had been paid for the 2 weeks, plus 0.835 days pay for untaken leave on top. It is simple maths !
You are quite correct that I didn't need time off because I was going to be unemployed again afterwards. As I said before, it was stated in my offer letter than time off could still be taken, with the agreement of the project manager. For a 2 week contract my own personal work ethic and sense of repsonsibility to my employer would prevent me from asking for time off, unless I had some sort of domestic crisis to deal with !
Quote:quote: - Even the staunchest IFA defenders on this messageboard seem to agree that the IFA minima are set far too low. Many of us are campaigning to raise them. You, with all due respect, seem happy with your employer paying the minimum. One question - Why?
I have never implied I think the wage levels in archaeology are fine. They are most certainly not. My post was in answer to an implication that a certain RAO was using holiday pay to mask paying under the IFA agreed levels. They were not and are not to my knowledge and experience.
As far as I am concerned I was put on the appropriate pay for my level of experience, according to the agreed and established responsbility grade/level. If I entered any other profession with the minimum experience I would expect to be paid the minimum on the scale and work my way up from there. The fact that the pay on those scales is ridiculously low is another point entirely and I completely agree they need to be raised substantially across the board. The actual grade/responsibility scale seems fine, but the pay is not.
I hope this explains my position a little more clearly.
Holiday Pay Ruling - mercenary - 17th March 2006
Reggie,
It is not just your position by any means. On Kevin's Outwage site I counted 10 other companies paying the minimum (plus or minus a couple of pounds per week. That's a lot of archaeologists, and only a fraction of them are going to be new and inexperienced. I just can't understand why they accept it.
Thinking back to when I was starting out I was not even aware if there were recomended minimum rates, and like you I was happy to have a job with relatively little experience. It didn't take me very long at all to do some comparative shopping on pay scales and to demand more than the minimum rate, which I got. And when I get a better offer I usually change employer. This strategy has led me to what I consider to be the best paying archaeological employer in the UK for what I do.
I feel very strongly that it is [u]not </u>just the yearly cohort of new and inexperienced archs to the profession that is holding wages down. It is the apathy and acceptance of poor wages by [u]experienced archaeologists.</u> The former I can understand, the latter stumps me completely.
Holiday Pay Ruling - Real Job - 17th March 2006
Merc, the trouble is that there are a limited number of jobs at your (or any) company! Voting with your feet is important, but is only possible if there is somewhere to go... The vast majority of UK units pay rubbish because the IFA tell them its ok to pay rubbish. Thats why we need them to introduce a 'dignity wage' as well as experienced archs demanding more.
Holiday Pay Ruling - mercenary - 17th March 2006
Agree completely.
Holiday Pay Ruling - Toby - 18th March 2006
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