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+--- Thread: Open Letter on Cuts and working together. (/showthread.php?tid=3797)
Open Letter on Cuts and working together. - GPStone - 18th March 2011
Well, I know what I want to see......
I hear Andy's points about beaurocracy and I think, in this instance he is probably right about the potential. Even if that could be avoided, the speed which would be required to act and the flexibility needed to achieve things quickly couldn't come from a convential organisation such as an umbrella group - there would be to much requirement for diplomacy and sharing of responsibility between all of the bodies, although I still feel it would be a wise move for the future within the archaeology part of the heritage sector.
38degrees has been a phenomenal success and has now expanded significantly from its original remit to draw in support and suggestions for other causes. If that is the model to follow (and it appears it is, provided it can be simple, accessible, fast and focused), then why don't we set-up a website just like that and use word-of-mouth to get the message out there.
I also have another concern. To ask the existing organisations to take a lead and produce something from their own ranks would take forever, create a diplomatic nightmare and would probably result in nothing more than a glossy sanitised, beaurocratically heavy campaign which might 'appeal' (or at least make them feel obliged to sign a petition) to those committed, signed up members within the respective organisations but would fail to capitalise on the potential more general, wider support. The solution to this could be to act now, set up a basic (although not unnattractive) website which can be built on stating simply the mission statement and asking for support and then deal with the diplomacy afterwards. If a campaign group founded on that can gather enough support, it is innevitable that EH, NT, CBA, IfA et al would want to join the growing band-wagon and then they can be pulled into the campaign.
Have we been here before............. it seems the key is to act quickly though...........
Open Letter on Cuts and working together. - GPStone - 18th March 2011
Sith Wrote:The latter course might have been hampered by the fact that a large proportion of today's political class appear to be distinctly un-clubbable.
I beg to disagree, Sith. Some seem more than a little clubbable, if only they'd stand still for long enough! }
Open Letter on Cuts and working together. - kevin wooldridge - 18th March 2011
GPStone Wrote:Well, I know what I want to see...... If a campaign group founded on that can gather enough support, it is innevitable that EH, NT, CBA, IfA et al would want to join the growing band-wagon and then they can be pulled into the campaign.
Have we been here before............. it seems the key is to act quickly though...........
Well I guess I could state the obvious and say that in Rescue there is already a campaign group that promotes all of the issues Andy Brockman and JP Stone have raised.....but as most of the 'established' archaeological bodies have shown a singular lack of interest in Rescue over the past 30 years, some might feel its below their dignity to now 'promote' Rescue as saviours of the day!! Shame really...cos that would be a positive way forward, particularly as Rescue have been quite active in monitoring the current trends in UK archaeology and from that point might be said to be some way ahead of the CBA ...
Open Letter on Cuts and working together. - GPStone - 18th March 2011
Whoa! That's a good point! Have they got anything like this idea up and running right now?
I'm just wondering if a single-purpose, web-based campaign with no political or beaurocratic affiliations and with the sole aim of generating and displaying public support for heritage and archaeology would have more effect (and more freedom) than something originating in a pre-existing organisation.
Open Letter on Cuts and working together. - Madweasels - 18th March 2011
I think we had all better read BAJR's quote again
To quote Sun Tse
[SIZE=3]So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
What is being proposed is largely, I feel, a better understanding and collective agreement about what we are, what our cause is and why we think archaeology to be important - but do we actually know what our 'enemy' thinks? Do we really know what it is that we are fighting against? Do we know who we are fighting against, even? Let me cut and paste something from a recent comments section related to the MoL cuts. The person was vehemently in favour of the cuts, purely because, as you will read, they see public-funded posts as being not of value. Nothing to do with archaeology, history, museology, I would guess, but a simple, straight-forward ideological view-point that requires less state, less public-funded posts, more value for each pound spent. The subject matter and any value placed upon it by its supporters and adherents is irrelevant. Here is the paste...
[/SIZE]"The reason I ask is that these 2 people have cost the proper taxpayer real money and a lot of it. If we take into account their gold-plated final salary pension schemes, the employer's other costs, their salary and bonuses etc then we could be looking at over ?50,000 a year to employer each of these "irreplaceable" curators. So over the last 10 years they have cost the taxpayer ?1,000,000 in taxes to employ.
What I want to know is what have we got for our money? A heart bypass in the NHS could be done for ?2,500 so in those terms they have cost us 400 heart bypass operations over that time and continue to cost us 40 heart bypass operations each year.
So what have they done that matches this in terms of value? Where are their outputs? And I am not talking about little-read musty research aimed at other like-minded people or pottering around and counting lumps of broken pottery.
I am amazed at how far removed people like you and these curators are removed from the real world. Nobody owes them a living and if you open your eyes there are hundreds of thousands of people losing their jobs across the UK and not all of them are public sector leeches like these two.
I tend to think that if people cannot demonstrate outputs that exceed the value of their costs then they are not justifying their existence. It is about time curators and others like them stopped living in the past and recognised that the world has changed."
Do you recognise the language? Straight out of Eric Pickles little blue book on how to shrink the state, reduce valueless front line services and axe non-jobs. I am sorry to put such a downer on all this but, like it or not, we are firmly in the position of opposition for many years to come - but we are not alone in opposition. We need to fight this ideology, build with partners to create a new future once this current lot have done their worse. We need to ally ourselves with anyone who is asking 'what exactly are the benefits of a strong economy (when it arrives) to our quality of life in the UK and Europe?. We need to get the Sustainable Development agenda back on track and to the fore.
Could go on but need to keep the head clear and blood pressure down for meetings this afternoon
Open Letter on Cuts and working together. - MarionRavenwood - 18th March 2011
'And the real beauty of it is that such operations can be set up relatively swiftly and cheaply. They need to be.'
'I am asking that our various voices agree to become one voice and point of contact'
OK, who's going to do it then?
Point: I don't see buy-in here from the CBA, IfA, etc. This scenario only works if they are willing to throw caps in the ring with everyone else and let go a bit on the iron grip of being the only ones 'allowed' to speak for archaeology.
Open Letter on Cuts and working together. - GPStone - 18th March 2011
First, can I attempt to summarise where we've got to:
There's the need to generate a level of representation and affiliation/communication which roots us in the bigger economic discussion (presumably counter to the current conservative ideals which are being roled out) as highlighted by Madweasels.
There's the need to generate an immediate demonstration of support for archaeology and heritage to counteract those ideals right now, which is what I now seem to have ended up talking about.
And there's the need to build on and bring together the existing fragmented and disparate organisations and groups which operate in (and to some degree, on behalf of) archaeology and form a collective agenda of some kind on behalf of archaeology and heritage.
What we're all saying is that we need to build and carve out a future for archaeology and heritage which is better than what we've got and what is currently on the table and defends the discipline from the current threats (perhaps until we can pull everyone together.......hmmm).
Secondly, in reply to MarionRavenwood: anyone! The beauty is that, if it doesn't have any political or organisational affiliations and only asks one clear question of people, it doesn't need to come from a body or ask permission to speak on behalf of one. It creates its own justification with the answers people supply..........I'm considerin doing something right now. All it needs is a website........
Open Letter on Cuts and working together. - moreno - 18th March 2011
I would envisage a working statement be developed along the concerns raised in this thread. This statement, listing our concerns, wants, needs, SOLUTIONS etc, could then be agreed upon. Since I live in west Oxfordshire, I would want to take this statement to a scheduled meeting (surgery) with my local MP. Anyone else in the west Oxfordshire area would be invited along. I would then explain, diplomatically, what I want. I also envisage his reply would be something along the lines of what do you want me to do about it? So, what do we want he/she to do about it?
Could even roll this out regionally.
Open Letter on Cuts and working together. - P Prentice - 18th March 2011
so we are going to set up another 'sittting around the' lobby group, get ourselves some snappy initials and speak up for a minority who can be bothered are we? probably little different to all those other 'gummy' groups who have so spectacularly failed to reach us.
how are we going to convince the idiots who elected the odious that they want us more than a hospital bed?
Open Letter on Cuts and working together. - Boxoffrogs - 18th March 2011
All very interesting and heard before. I have asked Very senior and other fellow archae's about the IFA getting charter status and have been poo poo'd. It should be a matter of pride to drive it forward, not a point of shame. ALL Units should be signed up to similar or be forced out of playing. Likewise, ALL diggers and assorted bomb fodder should be signed up too, if not forced out of this 'profession'. I would be happy for a single voice to move this forward but fear the dissenters will shoot him/her down in short order. HMG is set by the ConDems to pull this 'profession' apart as they want a free for all planning system to drive forward 'growth'. First, find a leader we can ALL get behind. Second give that leader VOICE and clear DIRECTION. I feel a committee forming already, and nothing gets done by a committee now does it? And, yes I would be happy to help!