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IfA/AAIS merger - Wax - 6th August 2011
Chiz I am sure there are many like yourself who work tirelessly behind the scenes in a very diplomatic way . But hand on heart why did you have to set up the Diggers Forum and why have so many previous members of the IFA left? Why aren't the IFA ( as an organisation rather than vocal individuals within that organisation) more vocal in the more public facing media ? I have no wish to flog a dead horse and in my own way I do stand up for and take an active part to support the profession. It just isn't through the IFA
If you are faced with apathy by the majority you must ask yourself why
IfA/AAIS merger - RedEarth - 6th August 2011
I had tried to post again on here but it seems to have disappeared or I did something wrong, essentially however much the former members of the AAIS might lose their identity, at least they got to vote on it, which is more than the IfA members did.
On the point most recently raised, it's a bit of a vicious circle. I for one would love to be more involved in things like the IfA council/committee/whatever and I'm sure many other people would too, but the nature of the work means that they have neither the time nor the funding to do so, particularly if, like me, you live a considerable distance from Reading. I do what I can in other ways but it would be good to be able to do more, unfortunately everything else gets in the way.
IfA/AAIS merger - chiz - 6th August 2011
No, Wax, actually there aren't many. There are far too few. Everyone assumes that someone else will take the required steps and do the graft, but in the end very few people do. That is the same across archaeology and indeed across life.
I have argued that we all need to make it easier for busy archaeologists and archaeological supporters to 'do' something, by creating resources to make this easy, this has been done to a certain extent such as the TAF factsheet and the fantastic Rescue Fighting Back info site. Organisations are talking to each other to make sure energies are not duplicated. We need to build on this and build networks to defend archaeology, we're doing what we can at the DF and there will be an article and info in the next DF newsletter so that our members can see what they can do, and understand the issues at stake.
The IfA is probably not more 'vocal' as it doesn't have the time and resources to be more vocal. If each IfA member added their voice then we could make a big noise, so we have to facilitate this. The DF has been arguing that we need to make it easier to make noise about the cuts, and hopefully that will happen. But if noone can be bothered to do more than sign an e-petition and maybe a very small number who might sign a stock letter to their MP then what future have we? The wider media etc are just not that interested, getting someone onto Today was a serious coup, and only possible because that fool Melton made a good soundbite: the minutiae of developer funding and HER provision mean nothing to the general public.
PS, I had nothing to do with setting up the DF, it was set up by Chris Clarke, Paul Everill and Jez Taylor amongst others. The DF is in the IfA but not of the IfA.
IfA/AAIS merger - chiz - 6th August 2011
Redearth, hi, you can attend the council via conference call, yes its hard to get the time, and stuff usually comes upthat gets in the way, but your voice would be listened to. And those of us who believe wages should be higher need all the votes we can get come November when there is the vote on any increase to IfA minima. Nominations are still open for council elections. Get in touch if you want to know more of what it entails?
re one sidedness in the voting, I agree its a bit strange but I guess that as they were dissolving their organisation and joining the ifa, rather than it being a true merger, it wasn't seen as being necessary? In recent months I believe a forensics group joined en bloc as well.
IfA/AAIS merger - Wax - 6th August 2011
[The minutiae of developer funding and HER provision mean nothing to the general public ) There in lies the root of all our problems. Educate the public and we might just save our profession. Anything else is pie in the sky.
IfA/AAIS merger - chiz - 6th August 2011
its not usually the public that are the problem, its usually journalists and the media who don't see beyond shiny stuff
IfA/AAIS merger - Dinosaur - 7th August 2011
Wax Wrote:Chiz I am sure there are many like yourself who work tirelessly behind the scenes in a very diplomatic way . But hand on heart why did you have to set up the Diggers Forum and why have so many previous members of the IFA left? Where arnt the IFA ( as an organisation rather than vocal individuals within that organisation) more vocal in the more public facing media ? I have no wish to flog a dead horse and in my own way I do stand up for and take an active part to support the profession. It just isn't through the IFA
If you are faced with apathy by the majority you must ask yourself why
Afraid I'm with Wax, part of the problem is IFA - 'we set the standards and everyone else has to comply with them, and once/if we get chartered status you'll all have to pay up and become members or join th dole queue'....who put them in charge? Archaeologists (particularly the digging end of things) tend to be a pretty independent lot and IFA's not going to get much more participation than they currently have until they get off their high horse - certainly not from me or anyone I've talked to recently anyway. Sad but reality
IfA/AAIS merger - GnomeKing - 7th August 2011
supporter though i am of the IFA (and thank you Chiz + others) i sympathise with Wax and Dino -...
i don't think the IFA can fill the various roles that many (admittedly sometimes apathetic and ignorant) want it to have - it can not be all things to all people -
Indeed it should not.
- we need a several overlapping independent bodies to facilitate arbitration of archaeological standards and policies + professional practice/employment standards, separate (for example) from commercial and business lobbyists) - - - aiming for a Monolith is not the way to go.
too much site hut apathy? perhaps...
But, that all said most problems arise from wider context of our lovely little excvavtions - there is only one lasting solution:
A World Fit To Do Archaeology In.
IfA/AAIS merger - P Prentice - 8th August 2011
Dinosaur Wrote:Afraid I'm with Wax, part of the problem is IFA - 'we set the standards and everyone else has to comply with them, and once/if we get chartered status you'll all have to pay up and become members or join th dole queue'....who put them in charge? Archaeologists (particularly the digging end of things) tend to be a pretty independent lot and IFA's not going to get much more participation than they currently have until they get off their high horse - certainly not from me or anyone I've talked to recently anyway. Sad but reality
another pile of dinosaur shite. standards are an absolute necessity. no doubt yours are adequate but you are always bleating about how many others are not and how much more difficult your life is because they are not! who's on the high horse?
IfA/AAIS merger - ecmgardner - 8th August 2011
chiz Wrote:Wax, just where has the IfA constantly failed 'to stand up for us' on the cuts issue? People keep saying this but its not something I recognise. What exactly do you think they are doing at the moment? There's a lot wrong with the IfA, and I'm in there trying to get that changed along with the rest of the Diggers' Forum, but Pete Hinton et al are lobbying hard to keep developer funded archaeology in existance. Have a look on their news page and you'll see some of what the ifa staff are doing to defend heritage from cuts: from writing to councils and ministers, to providing factsheets on what archaeology is worth economically so people can write letters, to responding to all the potential changes to legislation. But those who don't want to see it won't see it. I had an email from a mate complaining about how the IfA had done nothing about Fengate, when I pointed out the IfA wrote to the council the next day the complaint was changed to be that they didn't publicise their letter -it was on their website...oh, and putting a 'stirring' smiley after your post doesn't mean you are being clever or mysterious
If all the ranters on here actually got off their butts and actually DID something to make archaeology a better profession we might have something a bit better. Keyboard warriors all bitching and sniping, its so predictable I could write your posts for you! The reason archaeology is in a mess is because of all of us. Noone can be arsed to do anything to improve it, they'd rather sit around scratching their arses and writing shite. When David tried to get his Federation going noone could be arsed, when he tried to get you to unionise, noone could be arsed, when the DF try and get people onto IfA council so we can vote in minima rises, noone can be arsed to vote. You have all got the profession you deserve. Well done.
Re the AAI&S and the ISSIG, the most daft thing to me was the AAI&S committee seemed to think that the IfA would suddenly provide money and time to take over the roles of committee. From my participation in the Diggers' Forum I know that while the IfA staff are really helpful and work very hard to help, you still need a group of dedicated committee members to run the group. I am apparently a member of the ISSIG yet have never recieved a newsletter or email from them. As far as I can tell the group effectively doesn't exist at the moment -because noone has the time or inclination to do anything for everyone else. Since the AAI&S members don't have the time to run the AAI&S, how will they suddenly find the time to run the ISSIG? Or are they expecting the existing ISSIG members (who don't appear to currently do anything as a group) to do it for them?
I agree that there's no point ranting if you're not prepared to put your money where your mouth is.
I don't agree with your comments about the AAI&S and ISSIG. I can see how it might be interpreted that the AAI&S council thought there would be money etc provided by the IfA but speaking as a former council member... money was not the issue. The issue was time, people and commitment to undertake the administrative tasks not the running of the association in general. Without people ready and able to get involved nothing happens... as you were saying before. There is a full understanding that work does not stop and get handed over to the IfA, proactivity is key. The ISSIG group does exist and I suggest if you want to get involved you do so. Contact them rather than waiting for them to contact you.
The apathy is endemic, and rather dissapointingly so is the 'them and us' attitude which still seems to be crippling the ability of archaeologists to unite. I think the IfA is as good a banner as any to do this under as it is what you make of it.
I really can't see why chartered status is such a problem? Are your standards so poor that you're not prepared to sign up to a code of conduct? (Nope didn't think they were) and subs are dependent on earnings so what's the problem there?