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+--- Thread: What do you want? (/showthread.php?tid=4058)
What do you want? - Boxoffrogs - 22nd August 2011
...A job would be a nice starter...please.
What do you want? - Carrickavoy - 22nd August 2011
RedEarth Wrote:Do people realise how insulting that is to someone who does a genuinely grim job on poor wages?
so grim jobs I had before I entered third level education...working on a factory line (3 years), cleaning offices (1 year), picking mushrooms (9 months), night receptionist (1 year - less grim of the four but terrible hours)...
All of which were suitable grim in their own way so I feel I can express an opinion on this.
Yes it is great to be able to work in a job which is interesting. However, I feel the argument that we should be happy with our lot because what we do is interesting doesn't stand. Archaeology can be pretty damn boring, and wreck you physically (ditto mushroom picking). But then again when I worked in a factory we had union representation who made sure good working conditions were enforced and the atmosphere on the lines helped with the boredom. Yes, we are fortunate but that shouldn't excuse bad employment practices in our profession nor should we ignore it in other situations.
What do you want? - Jack - 22nd August 2011
RedEarth Wrote:My issue with the wish for quality archaeology is severalfold - you can't dictate what will turn up, it's entirely relative depending on what you find interesting and where you are working, and it is therefore unquantifiable.
Not entirely true. A pipeline may have several sites along it. Not all archaeology is unknown, especially if you've done a decent DBA, geophysics and trial-trenching.
Also on site a supervisor/PO picks who gets sent where, or, who does what area, who digs that grave, who gets to mattock off that 0.5m thick layer etc etc. Lots of choices.
On a management level staff preferences can be taken into account when deciding who gets sent to which job (sometimes) as long as people aren't being too much of an arse.
So if Mr A is only after more cash and isn't particularly bothered about juicy archaeology, he's an ideal candidate for that pipeline job with lots of opportunities for overtime but low potential for decent archaeology (narrow easement).
Whereas Miss B loves archaeology and would prefer to dig juicy archaeology and doesn't want to do overtime.........so no pipeline for her, but that large open-area excavation of a graveyard/ settlement etc....
RedEarth Wrote:At least wages and conditions can be controlled in some meaningful sense. How happy would people be if they had decent archaeology but no idea what their pay or hours were going to be one week to the next? I also worry that it makes archaeologists sound like spoilt brats - they are doing a job that many people think sounds fantastic anyway (compared to their 'mundane' employment) and then people complain that the quality of the archaeology isn't good enough. Give me a break! Do people realise how insulting that is to someone who does a genuinely grim job on poor wages?
I agree (I used to be a kitchen porter!). But that's not the point here. Maybe I should have started the title with 'Given the choice.......'
What do you want? - Illuminated - 22nd August 2011
What I most wanted and couldn't get (so left the profession) were two things not in the poll; job security and steady local work.
I would put job security over a higher wage. I could budget to live on ?15k if I knew I had that coming in all year and next year too..
The real financial problems come from insecurity - having to move house, waiting for housing benefit to be processed and so on. This is what makes it impossible to save and leaves you with mounting debts. Obviously a higher wage is needed for archaeologists, but I found the inability to plan financially due to not knowing if my current job would end next week or go on for years was worse than the low wage itself.
Second I'd like to have steady work locally, it becomes very hard to have any permanent family or social life when having to travel all over the place to stay away for weeks or months at short notice.
What do you want? - Jack - 22nd August 2011
Illuminated - yes your are absolutely right! There is very little job security in digging, which makes life very difficult. I (and lots of my co-workers) were pretty much nomadic whilst working the circuit.
Not the only profession like that though, and that kind of life is definitely not for everyone.
I only achieved partial job security through years on the circuit, being a pest and a bit of being in the right place at the right time. Can't see that changing in the future though as its linked to how the construction industry works - job-based contracts, competitive tendering, unpredictable start and finish dates, random on site changes/decisions and how much the industry is linked to the economy.
Unless an archaeological unit is very small or has a long list of guaranteed money-making projects, it is entirely dependent on the whims of the construction industry. In such a situation its difficult for a company to keep a large staff and survive hiccups like foot and mouth or the credit crunch.
No real help there I'm afraid, just stating what I have seen.
What do you want? - RedEarth - 22nd August 2011
Jack Wrote:Not entirely true. A pipeline may have several sites along it. Not all archaeology is unknown, especially if you've done a decent DBA, geophysics and trial-trenching.
Also on site a supervisor/PO picks who gets sent where, or, who does what area, who digs that grave, who gets to mattock off that 0.5m thick layer etc etc. Lots of choices.
On a management level staff preferences can be taken into account when deciding who gets sent to which job (sometimes) as long as people aren't being too much of an arse.
So if Mr A is only after more cash and isn't particularly bothered about juicy archaeology, he's an ideal candidate for that pipeline job with lots of opportunities for overtime but low potential for decent archaeology (narrow easement).
Whereas Miss B loves archaeology and would prefer to dig juicy archaeology and doesn't want to do overtime.........so no pipeline for her, but that large open-area excavation of a graveyard/ settlement etc....
I agree (I used to be a kitchen porter!). But that's not the point here. Maybe I should have started the title with 'Given the choice.......'
At a site level that is true, but I meant more in general - for example, nationally there could be a year where British commercial archaeology didn't find anything especially exciting, but on a single site obvious certain elements would be more interesting than others. One would hope everyone got a fair shot at everything, unless they specified otherwise, but on the other hand, unless you feel you are being deliberately victimised and not allowed to work on the bits you would really like to, it's difficult to have a genuine complaint.
Nothing is likely to conform conveniently to a poll at the end of the day.
What do you want? - Dinosaur - 22nd August 2011
RedEarth Wrote:Local authority archaeology magazine - never heard of that before. Which utopian county are you dealing with?
Try doing a job in Co Durham where you're pretty much forced to produce a piece for their annual magazine - it's a standard clause in WSIs. Eeerm, where else, West Yorks has had one for years, think theres ones for North Yorks and Northumberland too...maybe the north's ahead of the south in something?
What do you want? - Boxoffrogs - 22nd August 2011
anybody else noticed that the Wessex website has crashed? Drupal anyone ?
What do you want? - RedEarth - 23rd August 2011
Dinosaur Wrote:Try doing a job in Co Durham where you're pretty much forced to produce a piece for their annual magazine - it's a standard clause in WSIs. Eeerm, where else, West Yorks has had one for years, think theres ones for North Yorks and Northumberland too...maybe the north's ahead of the south in something?
I couldn't comment on the south, maybe it depends which part of the north you are in.
It was the notion of a 'local authority' magazine covering archaeology in some way that was interesting. I am familiar with county society journals carrying summaries of work carried out, although these not put together by those doing actually the work, which makes things a bit easier, but that's slightly different. I'm also aware of Discovery and Excavation in Scotland, although I'm not sure how that is compiled and by whom. All very useful, indeed, essential and a shame for those areas that don't have something along those lines.
What do you want? - BAJR - 23rd August 2011
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