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+--- Thread: benefits from a Professional Organisation (/showthread.php?tid=919)
benefits from a Professional Organisation - Dirty Dave Lincoln - 3rd May 2008
One of the main issues we need to deal with in commercial archaeology is our standing in regards to developers,i think there are too many archaeologists who see our primary role is to make the archaeology problem "go away" and that often leads to sites not being fully recorded and excavated just to stay in budget.
We need everyone to pull together and work as a separate body to development-instead, with undercutting of tenders for jobs we are failing our scientific field.:face-confused:
benefits from a Professional Organisation - Sparky - 3rd May 2008
There's certainly a lot of that, Dave.
benefits from a Professional Organisation - Windbag - 5th May 2008
If I understand D. Dave correctly, archaeologists being too close to developers is the problem. But generally the archaeologists with the best pay and conditions work for consultancies, which are often regarded as having the cosiest relationship with developers. Ironic?
Some archaeologists are supposed to be separate from developers- the curators. It's their job to apply archaeological conditions to planning applications, approve WSIs and sign off post-ex work. A decent curator will not let a shoddy piece of work get approved, and the contractor either should be taking a financial hit or going back to the client asking for more money.
Curators will of course say that they don't exist in a vacuum, that they form a small part of a planning team, that prevailing conditions and attitudes towards developers have more of a part to play than their individual contributions, they're too busy to police every piece of work etc.
Archaeology and heritage has never been so popular. If we can't get it correct now- in terms of pay and conditions as well as dealing with the archaeological resource in the manner in which it deserves- we never will.
benefits from a Professional Organisation - BAJR Host - 5th May 2008
I think an important part is the Curator/DC archaeologist... where they are the ones that implement and 'police' codes of conduct and a lot more... should they be strengthened?
"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu
benefits from a Professional Organisation - Dirty Dave Lincoln - 5th May 2008
Untill we have legislation barring rediculously low tenders for contracts none of the problems will ever be solved,as there will always be units who put in low bids just to get the jobs-and that has the knock on effect of keeping wages down and sites being under dug and recorded.
Ideally no unit would be allowed to practise unless they were registered with the IFA and therefore agreeing in writing that they will adhere to set common standards across the board!:face-confused:
benefits from a Professional Organisation - the invisible man - 5th May 2008
Agreeing to something in writing is worthless unless it is both enforcable and enforced. Strictly speaking standards and extent of work will already be agreed to in writing, in the form of the contract between the contractor and the employer, and further in the conditions required by the planning authority (curator). These need not be the same of course as the former may exceed the latter. The former is a contractual matter, probably administered by a consultant, which these forums suggest is part of the problem (but at least one consultant contrbuting here will dispute). The administration of the latter, as described by others above, is the role of the curator who therefore must be properly equiupped to perform this role. The analogy that springs to my mind is that of the LA Building Control officer, totally different legislation etc of course but on a 'daily basis' more how we seem to be suggesting a curator should operate. This of course requires the will to do it, and the human and fiscal resources. I spot a problem here...
benefits from a Professional Organisation - 1man1desk - 6th May 2008
All quotes from Invisible Man:
Quote:quote:Agreeing to something in writing is worthless unless it is both enforcable and enforced. Strictly speaking standards and extent of work will already be agreed to in writing, in the form of the contract between the contractor and the employer, and further in the conditions required by the planning authority (curator). These need not be the same of course as the former may exceed the latter.It is certainly true that standards cannot be enforced unless there is a detailed spec to measure them against. My experience is that the most detailed, clearest and enforceable specs occur where there is a good match between the scope of work in the spec, the curator's brief and the planning conditions, and where the spec is set in a strong contractual context. However, a weak curator's brief can undermine any consultant's attempt to write a strong spec - both have to be good.
Quote:quote:The former is a contractual matter, probably administered by a consultant, which these forums suggest is part of the problem (but at least one consultant contrbuting here will dispute).I'm guessing you meant me, and I am going to dispute it - but only in a qualified way. A bad consultant can be part of the problem, but a good one will police the work far more effectively than a curator (for resource reasons). Also, while it is easy to blame a bad consultant, you must bear in mind that there wouldn't be a problem at all if it weren't for bad units.
Quote:quote:The administration of the latter, as described by others above, is the role of the curatorTrue, but the scope of work defined in the curator's brief, the planning conditions and the spec ought to agree with each other. I would love it if all curators had the resources, skill, determination and back-up from their authority to police the work more effectively - apart from anything else, it would make it more likely that the client would take my advice.
1man1desk
to let, fully furnished
benefits from a Professional Organisation - historic building - 7th May 2008
The is a bit like the reasons for the sucess of the Counter Reformation. Good popes appoint good bishops.
As a curator a good consultant working on a project is exceptionally helpful. I will be blunt here, frequently it helps free up time for other projects which seem to need a bit more work and guidance.
benefits from a Professional Organisation - BAJR Host - 7th May 2008
Now for a fun question..
Define Good Curator? and Good Consultant...
"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu
benefits from a Professional Organisation - Steven - 7th May 2008
Hi
A good curator brings doughnuts for all staff when attending site monitoring
A bad consultant tells them to eat them in their own time
Steven