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+--- Thread: IFA Fees. (/showthread.php?tid=2158)
IFA Fees. - 1man1desk - 7th March 2006
I'm not sure that I understand much of this debate.
The IFA is an organisation primarily of and for field archaeologists. Its membership is dominated by people who work primarily in the field or in directly related jobs (unit management, post-ex work etc), with large contingents from places like EH. There used to be a lot of soul-searching about how difficult it was to get others(curators and academics, mainly) to join; I'm not sure if that is still the case.
The main activities of the IFA relate to field archaeology and field archaeologists - for example, setting standards/guidance for fieldwork, taking initiatives like the recent development of a new standard contract document for archaeological work, promoting CPD for field archaeologists.
It is a democratic body whose Council is elected by the members, and includes PIFAs and AIFAs as well as MIFAs.
What you have to be clear about though, is what type of organisation do you want - a professional institution, or a union? Many of the complaints about the IFA on BAJR are about its (alleged) failure to enforce employment rights/higher pay/etc. etc. That is a role mainly for a union, and I don't think you will find organisations like the ICE, RIBA or RICS performing that role. However, many of the same BAJR contributors also want the IFA to do more on professional matters, like the other professional institutions. You can't have both.
1man1desk
to let, fully furnished
IFA Fees. - diggerhobbit - 8th March 2006
Why can't we have both? Why cant the IFA an organisation devoted to field archaeology and those that practice it also look at the wider picture and the issues that a number of archaeologists today are concerned about/faced with, other than general fieldwork standards and CPD's? I know that this is as you say where unions come in but surely more people would be inclined to pay for membership if the IFA re-evaulated their status and took on board some of the comments/grievances people have voiced both out in the field and on this board [?]
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
IFA Fees. - Real Job - 8th March 2006
1man, you can bet your bottom dollar that if civil engineers, architects or chartered surveyors were the lowest paid graduate profession and spent much of their working lives being periodically made redundant (why do we always call it 'laid off'?) then their respective professional institutes would be doing something about it!
IFA Fees. - 1man1desk - 8th March 2006
Well, my office contains members of half-a-dozen different professional institutions (ICE, IEMA, etc. etc., as well as IFA). Although we are all (more-or-less) well-paid and secure in this particular company, that does not necessarily apply to all of our professions on a national basis (ecologists, for instance). In addition, several members of my family are members of professional bodies for architects, teachers and chartered surveyors.
I have asked, and none of their professional institutions concern themselves with employment matters to anything like the same extent as the IFA does. The most any of them do on this front is occasional surveys of salary levels, provided as information as much for the employers as the workers.
What they concentrate on is professional issues - principally setting minimum standards of good professional conduct; making a disciplinary procedure available in case of complaints (no active policing); some political lobbying on professional (not employment) matters; and providing information services. Some of them also get involved in draughting standard contract documents and providing arbitration services for contractual disputes.
The IFA does all these things. They are of benefit to all archaeologists, if we view ourselves as professionals and not as labourers.
1man1desk
to let, fully furnished
IFA Fees. - disheartened - 8th March 2006
Is the fact that other professional institutions (i.e. the teachers architects, surveyors you mention) do not concern themselves with employment issues not due to them perhaps being a stage ahead of where we are? As far as I am aware, basic working conditions, levels of pay etc. are fairly standardised for virtually all professions (within that profession) because these careers/jobs/vocations/professions are more established than archaeology? They have dealt with these issues in the past, and are now able to concentrate on "professional" matters such as codes of conduct, disciplinary procedures and so on. By trying to equate the I.F.A. with its brief history with, say, the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors (136 year history), the National Association of Head Teachers (founded 1897) or the Royal Institute of British Architects (founded 1837) seems to me to be a little overambitious, and perhaps trying to put the cart before the pony. A professional assocation can only prosper once it has established a level playing field from which it can move forward. I agree with 1man in that the IFA is trying to be professional and deal with professional issues. But my view is that the I.F.A. can only deal fully with these professional issues once everybody within archaeology (or at least an overwhelming majority) are on that same level playing field. Should the first step for a professional institute not be to establish that level playing field, by ensuring that all its members have the same rights and responsibilities?
IFA Fees. - BAJR Host - 8th March 2006
The only tuppence I want to put in just now...
The rate should represent 'value for money'
so if you pay ?80 a year... do you get ?120 worth of benefits... this could translate as... 10% of books bought through archaeology bookshop... discounts on tool hire or buying trowels.... what about workwear... perhaps travel? etc etc...
the point is that tangible benefits are often seen as positive benefits.. where it becomes 'worth' joining...
Thi8s could work and not devalue the IFA in its attempt to move into the next stage of truely representing the whole of archaeology- from Academia to Contractor and all stops in between.
Standards ..... Guidance ..... Support ..... Benefits ...... Policy ..... Representation ..... etc.. this could be the end result, when the IFA becomes supported by all...
Pipe Dream or Potential Reality ..... you choose.... after all, it is those who are not in the IFA who must be actively convinced to join... rather than being told to join... just because you get 4 magazines a year as a benefit.
Another day another WSI?
IFA Fees. - the invisible man - 8th March 2006
Personally I would not have said the role of a professional institute is to act as kind of store discount card. I would be saddened and disillusioned if that was the case. Certainly as a fringe benefit it may be able to negotiate some discounts for economy of scale, as it does for insurance for example.
I don't know about other professions but I doubt very much if the RIBA ever did a great deal, if anything, about levels of pay. That is a matter for an employer and an employee, who may both be professionals and may both be members of their professional body. I wouldn't asume that all architects and related professions are on huge salaries and all equal either. It depends on your ability and experience, who you work for and where, in what particular field, and the state of the economy at the time. There was huge unemployment in the profession, and very low salaries, in the old boom-bust days.
For myself, I went to quite some trouble to apply as a humble affiliate for the primary reason that I wished to associate myself with a code of conduct, thus making a public commitment to conduct myself in a certain manner. To me, that is what professionalism is all about.
We owe the dead nothing but the truth.
IFA Fees. - 1man1desk - 8th March 2006
There are several generations of architects in my family, including my grandfather, father and sister. I know that, even in the 1970s, when there was a great deal of unemployment and low wages amongst architects, the RIBA and ARIAS did nothing about employment matters. So their inaction in this field is not just a product of recent relative prosperity.
Similarly, my mother, wife and other family members are teachers. Their professional bodies do nothing about employment matters, concentrating on issues of professional registration and standards. This applied as much in the 70's and 80's, when teachers were poorly paid, as it does now, when their pay has improved a bit. However, most of them are also in unions, who do concentrate on employment matters and do nothing about professional issues. The two things are kept separate.
I don't think any professional institution can do both things successfully. The IFA has to choose - is it a union or a professional institution? I think that the choice has essentially been made, and it is the latter.
1man1desk
to let, fully furnished
IFA Fees. - BAJR Host - 8th March 2006
No intention for discount card status ... however... as the only insurance company to offer archaeology insurance is RBPM... and er... even if not in the IFA you can get the same deal (oh yes indeedy..). it is not a real benefit.
I feel that the money has to be seen to be 'worth it' ... for example... what does it mean to me to be a MIFA? does it help me get a job? (has not mattered to me in the past) Does it mean I now adhere to the Codes and Standards (already did that). Does it mean I am a professional? (I was before and still am)
So what does it mean to be in a professional institution... ? what do you feel has been the benefit of you membership? How do you convince people who are not in the IFA to join it...?
Part of it has to be tangible.. it has to be of benefit... it has to be meaningful. As BAJR I can set payscales already, I can even produce guidance docs...... so what makes the IFA different? Ofcourse soome of these are rhetorical, as I joined the IFA... but why was I convinced to join I hear you ask? Because I felt it might help - the letters after my name mean nothing until archaeology is a profession - from lecturer to prof... from digger to director. Thats what I joined for... to be part of it. I would hope to get something back in return.
Another day another WSI?
IFA Fees. - Alfie - 9th March 2006
Probably a foolish question; it occurs to me that what we really need is strong union representation; and we just arent getting it. So might I ask why on earth we dont set up our own Union? I believe Listing by the Certification Officer costs ?150.