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This CSCS thing - Dinosaur - 6th July 2010
Might sound a bit right wing, but what's really needed is some system to screen out the muppets at the start - however many courses you send them on and however many cards you give them some people are just never going to be safe near machinery, I've done a few jobs where my main supervisorial role has been marvelling that I've still had the same number of workforce at the end of the day all with the original number of limbs attached......
This CSCS thing - BAJR - 6th July 2010
WIthout sounding a bit right wing as well... I concur... there have to be some 'bar' to muppetry
This CSCS thing - mpoole - 6th July 2010
A skills test/obstacle course that requires the same reasoning skills as the average lab rat might do? I'm constantly shocked at the number of people who survive on a daily basis after watching them handle simple objects like sharp knives in a frightening fashion. It's a sad day when expecting basic common sense is now viewed as right-wing when it should be the norm.
This CSCS thing - Dirty Boy - 6th July 2010
BAJR Wrote:... there have to be some 'bar' to muppetry
You don't need a bar for muppets any more - not with all the compulsory PPE that's going about!
Hell, everyone's protected now that senior managers spend their days checking we're all wearing our gloves, googles and hard hats in open fields. A lad 6 foot down a tiny collapsing trench with a heavy material being lifted down over his head? He'll be ok as he's got his PPE on.
I'd suggest its more of a problem with muppet managers who seem to think that getting people to sign forms and wear unnecessary safety gear to "cover their arse" = health and safety rather than the general bods on site.
!
This CSCS thing - Dinosaur - 6th July 2010
mpoole Wrote:A skills test/obstacle course that requires the same reasoning skills as the average lab rat might do? I'm constantly shocked at the number of people who survive on a daily basis after watching them handle simple objects like sharp knives in a frightening fashion. It's a sad day when expecting basic common sense is now viewed as right-wing when it should be the norm.
Think we could all have a H&S Executive-paid trip over to Argentina to put them over the Total Wipeout course?
This CSCS thing - kevin wooldridge - 6th July 2010
Dinosaur Wrote:Might sound a bit right wing, but what's really needed is some system to screen out the muppets at the start - however many courses you send them on and however many cards you give them some people are just never going to be safe near machinery, I've done a few jobs where my main supervisorial role has been marvelling that I've still had the same number of workforce at the end of the day all with the original number of limbs attached......
OK I will bite.........I guess I am in a very small minority who find it deeply offensive that any archaeologist would describe his or her colleagues as 'muppets' but that in a sense is by the by.....
Part of the management responsibility under Health and Safety legislation (particularly in construction related professions ) is to ensure that staff in safety-critical positions are fit for working in that position. That fitness covers a great range of possibilities and can include the provision that the staff concerned are both physically and mentally fit to undertake any given task. Mentally fit meaning they possess both the understanding and the ability to concentrate for the period of time when their safety might at risk. If anyone in a management position allows someone who lacks the physical or mental fitness to work in a safety-critical area they could be committing an offence under the Health and Safety at Work Act.
So rather than blame it on the 'muppets', the responsibility here is singularly and absolutely in the realm of the Dinosaurs.......
(I am tempted to say 'spot the muppet', but I couldn't sink that low...)
A link to the HSE and the relevant regulations: http://www.hse.gov.uk/construction/healthrisks/workers.htm
This CSCS thing - Dirty Boy - 6th July 2010
kevin wooldridge Wrote:OK I will bite.........I guess I am in a very small minority who find it deeply offensive that any archaeologist would describe his or her colleagues as 'muppets' but that in a sense is by the by.....
You mean to say that you don't have any colleagues who are made out of felt and have googly eyes?
I don't think we have a problem realising that in a supervisory role we are responsible for mental and physical competance in terms of health and safety. I think its because of this we get slightly fed up having to take responsibility for people who have little concept of safety. It'd be nice to have some kind of idea if people are competant before they step on site and get crushed by a machine bucket on their first day, or drive their JCB into a wall!
This CSCS thing - Dirty Boy - 6th July 2010
Or in fact set fire to the whole site. Remember that happening to a mate of mine a few years back
That was a fun phone call back to the office for him!
This CSCS thing - kevin wooldridge - 6th July 2010
Dirty Boy Wrote:I don't think we have a problem realising that in a supervisory role we are responsible for mental and physical competance in terms of health and safety. I think its because of this we get slightly fed up having to take responsibility for people who have little concept of safety.
If someone is incapable of conceiving safety as an integral part of their job, they are clearly incapable of being on site and as supervisor you need to take responsibility for getting them out of the danger zone. Don't see what's so difficult about that or even what there is to get fed up with. Its just part of the job....
I would suggest you talk to your trade union and the company safety committee and the management about implementing a scheme where only safety competent staff are allowed on site.....that's just day to day trade union and saftey committee business after all.
The thing I have noticed about muppets is that normally there is someone behind the scenes pulling the strings......maybe another matter for the safety committee to discuss.
This CSCS thing - Dirty Boy - 6th July 2010
kevin wooldridge Wrote:If someone is incapable of conceiving safety as an integral part of their job, they are clearly incapable of being on site and as supervisor you need to take responsibility for getting them out of the danger zone. Don't see what's so difficult about that or even what there is to get fed up with. Its just part of the job....
I would suggest you talk to your trade union and the company safety committee and the management about implementing a scheme where only safety competent staff are allowed on site.....that's just day to day trade union and saftey committee business after all.
The thing I have noticed about muppets is that normally there is someone behind the scenes pulling the strings......maybe another matter for the safety committee to discuss.
I've never found it difficult and I'm perfectly aware its part of the job. Sorting it out is fairly simple - I boot them out of the way / off site and inform the management. Its just annoying how people bereft of sense keep on turning up.
Its never been a major issue really and doesn't happen often with archaeologists. I've usually been more concerned with people trying to cause me harm with large bits of machinery over the years. I stop work if someone's clearly dangerous and make large shouty complaints to the contractor if needed.