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+--- Thread: Cotswold Job (/showthread.php?tid=3007)
Cotswold Job - Jack - 21st April 2010
Austin Ainsworth Wrote:Good on ya, Jack.
A principled decision not to be exploited should be applauded. If we let employers get away with flat rate for overtime it will soon become the norm.
How did that job work out for your bosses when nobody was doing the overtime? Was the job extended or did the site crew have to do more work within the basic working week?
Cheers.
My team worked a standard 40 hour week. Some people (volunteers) did overtime machine watching as needed. All of this factored into the accepted man day estimates for the work, it seemed ok from all accounts.
Cotswold Job - Dinosaur - 21st April 2010
Austin Ainsworth Wrote:Good on ya, Jack.
A principled decision not to be exploited should be applauded. If we let employers get away with flat rate for overtime it will soon become the norm.
How did that job work out for your bosses when nobody was doing the overtime? Was the job extended or did the site crew have to do more work within the basic working week?
Good grief! No wonder British industry is all but extinct, all the call centres have moved abroad (actually no longer true, having moved all the call centres from Tyneside to India they're now moving some of them back because apparently people like to listen to a Geordie accent on the phone - strange world) and British archaeology, along with everything else that can't be moved abroad, is gradually being taken over by foreign labour!
Where there is no money for proper time-and-a-half overtime (like on Jack's job), why shouldn't people be allowed to better themselves (or at least their bank accounts) by earning some extra cash even if it is only at the rate that they actually signed up for in the first place?
Can't help feeling sometimes that some people posting on here would actually prefer to stay poor so that they can carry on moaning about it :face-stir: (no personal attack on you intended, Austin)
Cotswold Job - Oxbeast - 21st April 2010
Its people volunteering to machine watch for free on Jack's job that would piss me off, Dinosaur. The client can't have believed their luck on that one. Next time they wil insist on getting in the old dears and duffers to work for free rather than paying professionals.
Cotswold Job - Oxbeast - 21st April 2010
Oops, sorry, just reread your post Jack, and you probably don't mean volunteer volunteers, just workers volunteering for overtime.
Cotswold Job - Austin Ainsworth - 21st April 2010
Dinosaur, no insult or attack taken.
In the case outlined above I'd have gone back to the developer for more cash for the overtime. If the archaeological contractor found itself in a position where site staff were needed to machine-watch outside of standard working hours I can think of a few scenarios how that situation developed.
a) There was more archaeology to deal with than the time allowed; surely a legitimate variation to the standing contract?
b) The developers working times for their machine drivers was longer than the agreed working hours for the archaeologists, something which should have been picked up at the tender stage and costed for accordingly.
c) If the machine drivers made an on-site decision to work longer hours thereby necessitating longer machine-watching time then that would be an unforseen cost burden on the archaeological contractor and would be a legitimate cause to argue for variation of contract.
None of the possible reasons mentioned above are cause for paying site staff overtime at flat rate. I can't think of any scenario other than cost cutting for paying overtime at less than 1.5 of standard rate.
I have to admit that I got fed up with the miserable rate of pay in commercial fieldwork a few years ago and skipped off to another part of the heritage sector. Living out of a rucksack in some grotty B&B and doing overtime at flat rate isn't the kind of career in heritage that I'm interested in persuing. I put up with it for far too many years so Jack's stand and the current unionisation push are very welcome indeed; hopefully unionisation and people of principle will be able to put a stop to flat rate overtime and other unfair and unethical contractual terms and conditions.
Cotswold Job - BAJR - 21st April 2010
The conditions attached to the worker's individual consent are tightened by the proposed new directive: member states may allow workers to opt out from the limitation of hours worked so long as this is expressly allowed under a collective agreement (e.g., with a trade union), and if the individual worker consents. The individual's consent is subject to conditions:
- It cannot be given at the same time as the contract of employment is signed or during any probation period
- It has to be given in writing
- It is valid for a maximum of one year (renewable)
- No worker can work more than 65 hours in any week
- Employers are obliged to keep records of the number of hours actually worked and to make those records available to the responsible authorities if required.
Cotswold Job - Dinosaur - 21st April 2010
Ah, there goes my pension then.....may have to go back to being self-employed to get around that and pay the rent :face-crying:
Cotswold Job - randy13 - 21st April 2010
Dinosaur, i believe what we are trying to say is we all need to work together to get properly paid overtime on jobs, this will never happen again if ppl r prepared to work it at standard. Believe it or not, 2 yrs ago i was on a well paid site with accomodation, subs & at one spell we managed 2 stand firm together to get dbl paid overtime out of the contractor! They have the money there but obviously they're not gna fling it at u, when mugs r prepared 2 do the job at standard.
This is the major problem with our profession every1 is 2 busy rowing with each other rather than standing together. So many times i've heard supervisors whingeing at diggers whingeing abt money each claiming each has the rougher deal instead of actually wrking together 2 improve conditions all over.
Cotswold Job - Dinosaur - 21st April 2010
Jack Wrote:...My team worked a standard 40 hour week. Some people (volunteers) did overtime machine watching as needed. All of this factored into the accepted man day estimates for the work, it seemed ok from all accounts.
That all sounds above board and reasonable, within the agreed contract with the client, just switching a few hours around to fit in with the contractor's working hours, if people want to make some more money rather than moping around for the evening in the digs why shouldn't they? Better than stripping going on un-watched
Cotswold Job - Austin Ainsworth - 22nd April 2010
Dinosaur Wrote:That all sounds above board and reasonable, within the agreed contract with the client, just switching a few hours around to fit in with the contractor's working hours, if people want to make some more money rather than moping around for the evening in the digs why shouldn't they? Better than stripping going on un-watched
If the overtime hours were calculated into the job why wasn't a proper rate for the overtime also allowed for?