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+--- Thread: Is the NVQ worth it? (/showthread.php?tid=3716)
Is the NVQ worth it? - BAJR - 2nd February 2011
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That will be the 1200 then
Good answer Kevin. and good luck with QGIS... it is pretty easy. and has loads of plugins as well.
now up to Version 1.6
I agree that anyone can survey.. Which is why, before I go to the button pressing stage. (the easy bit) we go over angles, and geometry based survey. Understand the concept, then you can survey with tech equipment. Accuracy for me is (for field Survey ) ( 1m ---- 5m -------- 10m or Area point.. with boundary polygon )
If you are suggesting that people need to understand the basics first, understand what they need to do and how to do it. Be able to use a station or a GPS SmartRover 1200 be able to use software from onboard data loggers to Penmap or Cartagoo. ( there is another one for ya!) Then that takes time and training.. and yes... that is good.
I have in the past had to correct a massive survey in Jordan... if only the original 'surveyor' had closed the traverse and conducted daily reference checks. :face-crying:
So yes, as a member of the Association of Archaeological Illustrators and Surveyors , I and many others can be as accurate as is required, as flexible as needed, pinpoint geo-referenced or internal grid tastic.
Is the NVQ worth it? - moreno - 2nd February 2011
Cartagoo? Yep, will have a look. And here all these years I've been using expensive commercially available software (Penmap). I should have just typed in my search "free" first. Doh! On another digression, regarding "surveying". Having been old schooled in surveying i.e. with a compass, back sighting, triangulating and using a dumpy level and stadia rod, these skills still come in quite useful. There have been times when on remote projects when the surveyor (the only one present) has been injured, gone down sick, equipment has failed etc and those few of us who still remember the basic skills were able to carry on. On recent projects I still use these methods to set out trenches for individuals that I would have assumed knew how. Given their level of experience I was quite suprised to find that they didn't.
Is the NVQ worth it? - kevin wooldridge - 2nd February 2011
Stephen Jack Wrote:I hear what your saying, but the only way to know if the data is any good is to go back and find sites with the survey data. Anyone can survey you only get found out when you test the data which maybe several years later and your long gone. The 1200s with GPS may reduce this issue but how many people are using these machines.
I think there are many ways of knowing whether the data is 'any good', but on your specific point most archaeological contractors that I know both in the UK and abroad that use total stations such as Leica locate their sites to national survey grids or the World Geodetic System (WGS) so physically returning to the location of a site (in many case the archaeological remains would have been removed) is not diffficult. Finding the digital evidence of any site is slightly more daunting, for whilst I am sure the integrity of the original and processed data is fine, finding online facilities where that data can be accessed is still hit and miss. For all kinds of reasons mostly outside of the control of the archaeologists who collected and processed the original data....
How many archaeologists are using machines equal to the task.....well certainly all archaeologists in Norway (where I work) and in Sweden and all of the major UK archaeological contractors. I have seen the instruments in use by archaeologists in Germany, Austria, Denmark, Ireland, Spain and France. The Swedish antiquities service (responsible for the Intrasis programme and which relies on digital data capture) tell me that it is used by archaeologists in Hungary and Iceland. And I have colleagues who use the equipment on projects in Turkey, Greece and the Middle East and the Caucases. I have used similar equipment in the USA and in Qatar. And as David mentioned he has used simialr equipment in Jordan and Croatia.... And of course it is used by Time Team!! To answer the question....I would say a fair number of archaeologists.
Is the NVQ worth it? - kevin wooldridge - 2nd February 2011
moreno Wrote:.. Having been old schooled in surveying i.e. with a compass, back sighting, triangulating and using a dumpy level and stadia rod, these skills still come in quite useful.
I agree and that will always be the case (Old dogs - new tricks etc), but one of the great advantages of modern survey equipment is it's efficiency, not least that in most cases it allows a job previously reliant on two or more persons (surveyor and stick boy, chain girl, pole holder whatever you called it) to be done by one. And the post field processing from data download to finished map or database is infinitely faster and more accurate. And (I think we had this discussion before) costs of either purchase or hire are not prohibitive .... I think we estimated per week hire charges in the UK roughly equal to the cost of employing one field assistant....
Is the NVQ worth it? - moreno - 2nd February 2011
kevin wooldridge Wrote:I agree and that will always be the case (Old dogs - new tricks etc), but one of the great advantages of modern survey equipment is it's efficiency, not least that in most cases it allows a job previously reliant on two or more persons (surveyor and stick boy, chain girl, pole holder whatever you called it) to be done by one. And the post field processing from data download to finished map or database is infinitely faster and more accurate. And (I think we had this discussion before) costs of either purchase or hire are not prohibitive .... I think we estimated per week hire charges in the UK roughly equal to the cost of employing one field assistant....
Quite right, there is the need to adapt and keep pace with the changing nature of collecting archaeological data. As I mentioned sometimes there is failure, operator or equipment and you have to be able to crack on. It doesn't hurt to be familiar with the "older" methods. Not all small units, I'm only refering to the units I've worked with, will employ someone to carry out an electronic or digital survey, for whatever their reasoning. If your the person on the ground (i.e. on site) the data still needs collecting.
Is the NVQ worth it? - Stephen Jack - 3rd February 2011
Some interesting answers, did not realise how wide spread the use was of the 1200s with GPS was.
Can QGIS use data in the form of a CSV file, point no. X,Y,Z?
Is the NVQ worth it? - Sith - 3rd February 2011
BAJR Wrote:..Penmap..
Nooooooo! I used to be a blackbelt in Penmap but I haven't been near it for several years now. It still gives me the fear, mainly because everytime we updated the system or brought it out of a few week's hibernation, we had to take it to 'Mr Penmap' in Bradford to get him to unscramble it.
Is the NVQ worth it? - kevin wooldridge - 3rd February 2011
Stephen Jack Wrote:Some interesting answers, did not realise how wide spread the use was of the 1200s with GPS was.
Can QGIS use data in the form of a CSV file, point no. X,Y,Z?
I am not a QGIS user, but there are freeware converter programmes that will convert CSV to shapefiles - so I guess the answer is - Yes
Is the NVQ worth it? - moreno - 3rd February 2011
Stephen Jack Wrote:Some interesting answers, did not realise how wide spread the use was of the 1200s with GPS was.
Can QGIS use data in the form of a CSV file, point no. X,Y,Z?
Stephen, are you refering to vector data? If so, I'm in the process of reading through the manual and sample data. So far I would say yes. The data I collected years ago is point data. I can't remember the system on the data logger, I do remember that it had to go through a transition program from the logger, through the program and then into CAD. It was such a hassle. Again, this was years ago. Hopefully when I get to the stage of rendering this data in QGIS the answer will still be yes *fingers crossed*
Is the NVQ worth it? - moreno - 3rd February 2011
I had to tutor a module for an archaeology course, intro to Pen Map was part of it. *shudders* ewe.
The 1200! Been looking at second hand machines. The 900 series is more in my price range...can always work up!