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+--- Thread: BAJR leaves the IFA (/showthread.php?tid=914)
BAJR leaves the IFA - BAJR Host - 9th May 2008
Damn fine rant... ! and much I can agree with..
To take your quote
Quote:quote:This makes it very difficult for the IFA to move forward in the way many of us wish it to. I'm still in it for the same reason I joined, it's far from perfect but it's never going to change if no-one joins/jumps up and down/ gets involved. Which is why I said that I also thought it was a shame that BAJR felt he had to resign from the organisation. I get very frustrated sometimes too!
I quite agree... and this is part of the problem... a cyclic one...
Lots of discussion and working parties that come up with great info and ways forward that take so long to move forward that the earth has moved and everything is different therefore needing an updated working group to examine how things have change...etc.... etc..
ps-- I don't want this thread to turn into a negative anti IFA ain't working thread. --
I have said that I still believe in the ideals of the IFA - its what happens if you do jump up and down that worries me. Troll.. is now in Cyprus.. others are no longer able to work where they live, others have left archaeology because they did make a noise.. You could say I rock the boat... loose cannon... big gobbed etc.. but I stand by my principals until convinced.. but when convinced will happily do a 180 turn... and be just as steadfast with the new. I don't mind being proved completely wrong.
I did not leave the Council and IFA from a sense of frustration - though I do confess that dealing with frustration is not one of my better traits
I do worry and care about the hundreds who live a hand to mouth existence - and when it comes to pushing forward a reasonable deal that sees both companies able to cope... and employees getting the best that is affordable .. then I will be up at the front - with many others.
I know its tricky... and respect both the Employers concerns and those of the digger and supervisor, the illustrator, the buildings archaeologist and project officer... all skilled people who have difficulty paying a mortgage... I was told, the best way to survive in archaeology is to marry someone who is not... and boy was that true... From a person with negative 5 grand in the bank, no house, car, nothing apart from a rucksack full of clothes .. only when I met maggie did my life change... giving me the stability to create a 'normal' life. I'm all for considering the options... and now we have... we have to act - together... IFA, SCAUM, PROSPECT, ALGAO, APPAG and from the side... I'll be shouting.
oooooo... you got me going now as well [:I]
"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu
BAJR leaves the IFA - Dirty Dave Lincoln - 11th May 2008
Archaeology needs to change as a proffession,its no use some people saying we need to become more proffessional but actually doing it.
I have noticed over the years that anyone who tries to challenge the abuses within the job (specially at digger level) tends to get labelled as a trouble-maker and their veiwpoints rubbished!this is nearly always done by the bad apples who don't want the status quo to change,unless its in their favour as opposed to changing for everyone or for the archaeology itself.
Too many diggers are afraid of speaking out in fear of losing their jobs-especially among those just starting out,and as such tend to get treated as little better than uneducated oiks and not treated as archaeologists in their own right!:face-confused:
BAJR leaves the IFA - BAJR Host - 11th May 2008
cue... people saying... when I was a lad, I was grateful of the slap on the head when I dared speak out of turn!
Didn't do me any harm...."No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu
BAJR leaves the IFA - oldgirl - 12th May 2008
I've regularly been labelled a trouble-maker, as have a number of other people I know. Things have changed for the better (a bit) so it's important to carry on rocking the boats. But there needs to be a little bit of tact in it too, just broad brush painting everyone above a certain level as old school reactionaries doesn't help much! (I've been guilty of that too, and left a number of jobs because it happened to be true in those organisations!) Personally, I don't have a problem employing 'troublemakers', as long as they are prepared to listen to my point of view too. Not just accepting what you're told but thinking about it reasonably and forming an informed opinion is what archaeologists do for goodness sake! We don't want to lose that!
I've always called the people working with me 'archaeologists', that's what we are. It's why I've never used 'supervisor, project manager' etc. We are all archaeologists with various levels of skill, knowledge etc, but we all always have more to learn and can learn from anyone. (I've always said, any archaeologists that says they've never made a mistake is either lying or doesn't know enough to realise they've made a mistake..... and it doesn't just apply to the archaeology!)
And the people who know me who didn't realise it will after that quote!
BAJR leaves the IFA - BAJR Host - 12th May 2008
Quote:quote:Not just accepting what you're told but thinking about it reasonably and forming an informed opinion is what archaeologists do for goodness sake! We don't want to lose that!
Well said.
"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu
BAJR leaves the IFA - 1man1desk - 12th May 2008
Posted by oldgirl:
Quote:quote:'ve always called the people working with me 'archaeologists', that's what we are. It's why I've never used 'supervisor, project manager' etc. We are all archaeologists with various levels of skill, knowledge etc, but we all always have more to learn and can learn from anyone.Most of that is very true and valid. We are all 'archaeologists'.
However, it is also true that all archaeological projects (except the very smallest) require a number of people working in different roles. It is useful to have functional labels for those roles, and that is the light in which I have always seen terms like 'supervisor', 'specialist', 'project manager' etc - functional labels, not hierarchical titles.
If you don't have functional labels to describe roles, but always just called everyone an 'archaeologist' without qualifying the term, then it would become almost impossible even to have a coherent conversation about the project.
1man1desk
to let, fully furnished
BAJR leaves the IFA - oldgirl - 12th May 2008
Thanks for that, I take your point. Functional labels are good for a quick understanding of who does what. Also, someone has to make the decisions in the end and carry the buck if it goes wrong! And you need a certain amount of heirarchy to do that, otherwise it's too easy to pass it on.
BAJR leaves the IFA - Dirty Dave Lincoln - 12th May 2008
These are very good and valid points about functional labels and decision making,but I always reserve the right to disagree with someone of a higher title if they are wrong and to try and help them understand why they are wrong,if they refuse to listen and try to "order" me to "do as your told-i'm the boss" then 1)I refuse to put up with being spoken down to as if i'm a servant with no rights,and 2)I will try to do the job in the correct manner as that is what i get paid to do,regardless of whoever the supervisor or PO is.
Altough the system we have is not perfect and could do with improving,it only truly breaks down when there is people who don't seem to give a damn about doing a professional job and rely on the use of their title to get away with it.
BAJR leaves the IFA - BAJR Host - 12th May 2008
Ah... titles...
I remember (and I sure many of us will) one site and one particluar supervisor .. he had just come out of Uni and of course walked into a 'higher job' than us diggers who were without (though not all) degrees. he had a whopping 10 weeks on Uni digs.. while most of us had been in the field for years - by that time I had been digging for just on 9 years ... Would he listen? Nope.. would he put people to tasks that suited them? nope... He knew best! so I was put onto site photography (even though I was a damn fine planner.. with a 1:20 laser eye) and another who was superb at photography, was put on shovelling out a ditch, while a person with a great deal of knowledge on excavating skellies was told to join him, while an archaeologist who was better than most at animal bones, she was the planner, even though she told him, it was not really her strong point. he had decided.. and therefore, we should listen to the great supervisor .. Caused no end of resentment, and even between us, as the photographer watched me struggle with the site photos, and I kept on looking over the planners shoulder....etc....
Heirarchy only works (IMHO) when - as DDL says, people listen to each other, yes somebody has to take the decision, but it always makes me think of the cliched War film, where the sarge advises the Loootenant, the Private has a unique skill that they can use, and everyone plays to their strengths.
"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu
BAJR leaves the IFA - oldgirl - 13th May 2008
which is why I suggested what I did on the 'professional body' thread. We nearly all need people and project management skills wherever we are in the profession. I did a civil service college course for junior/middle managers years ago, it included half a day on 'how to manage your boss'.