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+--- Thread: Archaeology... it's the future! (/showthread.php?tid=1163)
Archaeology... it's the future! - trowelmonkey - 23rd October 2008
A few points:
I_love_rocks, universities need more people like you: )
Fieldwork is becoming prohibitively expensive for many, which is why universities have drastically cut back. I still think that everybody ought to have the opportunity to go on at least one 4 week field school, not in the least because there is not the same time-pressure as in commercial archaeology to learn words like mattock, shovel and spade. (It scares me when people turn up on site lacking these words in their native tongue.) It is also a good time to find out whether you like working outdoors.
I realise that lots of people who study archaeology donât wish to pursue career in fieldwork. That is why I was vague about internships, they could easily be with museums, conservators, laboratories and similar establishments. That is also why I think that the final year internship should not be compulsory, but highly encouraged in those who wish to stay in archaeology. By final year they know who they are.
Mr Hosty, a 4 week internship strikes me as too short for the trainee to be useful to the placement host. For the idea to work there has to be a direct benefit for the âemployer.â Therefore, I would favour a whole term in the final year (English or Scottish system). Like teacher training, this should not be an additional cost born by the student.
Before graduating every student ought to know the rudiments of excavation even if only taught out of a book as a compulsory week-long course and site visit. If I am being pedantic it is because I have come to realise that some artefact specialists who are very good at what they do, have no clue how the object in question ended up on their desk. That canât be good.
As to how newbies are treatedâ¦. I find that one has to prove oneself every time one comes to a new unit. Since I have already been nice about the IfA today I shall continue in the same vein (and then go lie down in a darkened room). I really wish their coach-mentoring programme would be more widely adopted. It really costs nothing and despite the cheesey American term really does help encourage communication and figuring out what people know.
I get annoyed with the âyears servedâ argument. The âI should be a supervisor because Iâve worked here two months longer,â cry. People should be rewarded for merit. Iâve argued for years for a senior site assistant grade for the technically proficient who for whatever reason do not suit organising other people. Driving out the technically proficient really hurts the profession. (Several grades of site assistant would be best, the top somewhere equivalent to junior PO in pay and responsibilities for self, eg also deals with contractors and equipment hire, writes reports.)
Windbag, I love the critical rigour of British academia, but while the balance of teaching is far against practical knowledge students have all but lost the art of learning by observation and example and critic sometimes seems unthinkingly reflexive.
ed for syntactical errors
Archaeology... it's the future! - trowelmonkey - 23rd October 2008
http://www.scribd.com/doc/523888/Teamwork-and-Archaeology-Developing-teambuilding-skills-in-archaeology-students
Archaeology... it's the future! - trowelmonkey - 23rd October 2008
Another interesting read:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/523892/Employability-and-Curriculum-Design
Archaeology... it's the future! - i_love_rocks - 23rd October 2008
Trowelmonkey: I agree with everything you've said in your last post and thanks for clarifying some points.
I think its unlikely that students would be able to go on a whole term of work placement as part of their initial degree. While this does happen as part of some MA courses, undergraduate students have to fulfill the curriculum set by the university/ department and the last term is often taken up by exams. There is already a lot of pressure on students in the last year, when they have to usually write a dissertation and make the last coursework count.
I think it probably has to happen after university - like teachers or medical students have to do. Whether that's 12 or 24 weeks is another question.
Archaeology... it's the future! - BAJR Host - 23rd October 2008
Ah... yes... now I remember!
You can see all the documents that BAJR has added to this library here
http://www.scribd.com/people/view/110577-david-connolly
Plus... watch out for an exciting new resource coming soon...
ahem... apologies... back to the topic...
"I don't have an archaeological imagination.."
Borekickers
Archaeology... it's the future! - student@gla - 23rd October 2008
Concerning experience while at studying at uni:
Different universities have vastly different fieldwork requirements, mine is 11 weeks. Three weeks are provided by the university but you have to organise the rest yourself (though the department ask where you plan to go first). This is over 3 summers because its a scottish course.
Personally I found that the students that organised their own fieldwork before the dept. fieldschool were much more confident and willing to work as a team compared to those who started at the fieldschool. But that could be because it self-selecting, they were the ones who really wanted to dig :face-thinks:
And as a final year student, I recommend first years to do their fieldwork asap, we start our dissertation in Easter of third year!!
Rant over, and apologies for straying so far off topic.
Archaeology... it's the future! - trowelmonkey - 23rd October 2008
Mr Hosty, your efforts are much appreciated.:face-approve:
"'"There is a bigger problem though. I have noticed in the past few years that universities are starting to crank out belligerant archaeology graduates (see IfA paper on scribd) who do not listen, look and learn but only challenge every single sentence like a bunch of three year olds. I mean the very little things like, "clean your tools, please share the wheelbarrow because there isn't enough space in that corner, don't walk on that area, it hasn't been photoed...." I really think work experience on a real site would demonstrate why a site is a team effort.' -TM
Although this is slightly going off topic I wanted to weigh in on this one in particular, because I am not sure that this is the fault of universities especially.
Right now I do not work in the commercial sector, but for the last couple of years I have taken university students as part of their fieldwork experience to work on one of my sites abroad. Unfortunately, I have often had a very similar experience to what trowelmonkey describes. At first I thought this was subjective, but I have since gotten the same feedback from others....I've found that there are increasingly people who simply do not take pride in the simple mantra of 'a job well done' and see this as a source of motivation and inspiration. And there are increasingly people who simply think they know it all, and won't bloody listen to well-meant advice. And there is an increase in selfishness and a lack of teamwork, for sure. I have seen this a lot on my projects, but sometimes it is simply something that you can't teach!
My experience is the same as trowelmonkey describes, and I cannot help but feel that this might simply be a generational change - even if saying that makes me sound like an old crank." -I_Love_Rocks
When I first came across this problem I too thought it was my bad luck to get a couple "difficult" ones in a short space of time. Comparing notes over the past 2-3 years this seems to be a trend. These same people also seem to take criticism very personally. Suddenly, "you'll hurt your back if you shovel like that," seems to mean "I hate you, you are minging," and I'm feeling a little bewildered and suddenly like an old fogy!
If we are experiencing a generational shift, how do we constructively integrate a generation that does not naturally think outside themselves into the better aspects of the work culture?:face-thinks:
PS student@gla, I hope I don't come across as 110, this is just a trend i'm noticing, not "all the waens today
Seeing the skills wish list develop aren't glad you went to glasgow?
Archaeology... it's the future! - shovelnomore - 23rd October 2008
Has to be said, I've not noticed the generation gap that much. I've worked with some cracking stoodents in my time. I was a bit worried about sounding offensive in this reply, but 1) you can't write of all students as know-it-all workshy types- that's pretty offensive in itself, and 2)most students now have much higher expectations of archaeology than even those of my generation (roll-up end of the circuit diggers...). It's no longer enough to expect people to be grateful for the chance to do a bit of digging- they expect a career doing interesting and rewarding stuff. Like we all should!
Back on topic, some professionalism and thought would be nice.
Archaeology... it's the future! - trowelmonkey - 23rd October 2008
Never said it was universal, but I've noticed a trend and am not alone and I was wondering what's up? I didn't say work-shy either, rather a lacking in team spirit. What I want with every level is dialogue, not to be site nanny. I really do believe in the whole coach-mentoring thing but that only works when both parties converse rather than knee-jerk criticise. By all means question why the slot goes there or what's happening in the section, all good, but in return listen to the answer and for pity's sake pick up your neighbour's tools without being told if they are struggling to carry them in.
Pace. I don't want this to take over a cracking thread started by Gorilla.
Despite all the moaning we've come a long way from that kind of circuit digging, and I for one am glad. I'm surprised that not more people have siezed on structed career development which I think is the much more pressing issue.
Archaeology... it's the future! - shovelnomore - 23rd October 2008
Aye, true looking back through your post I might have over-reacted. olive branch (graciously offerred) accepted.
Structured career development would be good, but I've worked in local authority which is supposedly about as structured as it gets and with the nature of the employment, you're still subject to individual manager's ptronage. Thoroughly medieval.
To be honest, I think that things have moved on lots since the heady days of the early 90's. We just need to keep the pressure on and keep the incremental movements going. All the talking, CPD and profiling the profession can only do so much. Keep doing the little things better, keep the attitude right and not give in to the pressure to bodge along like everyone's always done. It may not help us that much, but could help those feckless yoofs in the future...
For the record, I find the present IFA policy of sneaking chartering in 'through the back door' (pretty much direct quote available from senior IFA figure through the IFA website in some variey of proceedings)alarming at best.
I'm also hoping that NVQ appears soon. I'm not sure how many assessors there are already qualified, but there's a time limit (usually three years) on the currency of your assessor awards... After which you need to start over again.
CPD, fair enough. Again from local government a former colleague of a former employer was told by her line manager at a PDP meeting that her place in the organisation was like 'the sh1t on the bottom of my shoe'. You can legislate all you like, but you need to change the attitudes, particularly of an older generation.