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+--- Thread: Archaeologists against the cuts (/showthread.php?tid=3492)
Archaeologists against the cuts - Carrickavoy - 20th October 2010
Some of this thread is a little bit like the dogs fighting over the scraps from the table...lets blame the newbies?!
Well folks aren't you lucky, you got a break 20 years ago, 'cos none of the recent graduates are gonna get one now and that is why they are pouring out of the profession and the country. This debate shouldn't be about posturing and protecting your piece of turf but rather about working together to fight back against cuts that are promoted by ideology and have nothing to do with austerity. Even the governments own economic advisors are warning against the problems these cuts could bring about, such as a double-dip recession.
Its time we worked together, made like the French and got to the streets...it has been apolitical naval gazing and a protectionist mindset that got us into this mess in the first place.
Now I'm gonna take my university education and fill out my visa application...:face-crying:
Archaeologists against the cuts - BAJR - 20th October 2010
Quote:Its time we worked together, made like the French and got to the streets...it has been apolitical naval gazing and a protectionist mindset that got us into this mess in the first place.
:face-approve: A bit more of this attitude and we may just survive! Good words Carrickavoy
Archaeologists against the cuts - Unitof1 - 21st October 2010
Quote:
Public Value via Scientific&Historic Collections is the only sustainable long term justification for our profession - the case needs to be made by all with a vested or intellectual interest.
or fund raising by lottery
http://www.scigames.com/sections/lottery-museum/
or selling off assets, charging for access, mergers. All we hear is funny headlines that they are going to close. These are basically the front end of county council store rooms with not an archaeologist amoungst them. Are they going to sell the exibits-does anybody want them?
Archaeologists against the cuts - GnomeKing - 21st October 2010
Public Value via Plublic Collections
-no they cant sell exhibits, and de-accsesioning takes tiema nd money.
-Collection = Storage, Pulbic=Council - yes these are the 'front end of store-rooms' (if you like....)
-Yes there may be some problems with staffing structures (e.g. collections curators are still - and often wrongly - treated as a white collar elite, whereas (frequently) more skilled and trained technical staff are still regarded (and paid) as somewhat working class...
council staff play a huge role in maintaining the public interest in heritage (and thus in archaeology) - this is of direct benefit to all 'Real Commercial' archaeologists.....rarely do commercial bodies perform this function (not even Educational-Charities-With-A-Name-Like-A-Famous-University)
BUT - we are looking at permanent loss of posts and service, not re-evaluation....how can any 'Real Commercial' archaeologist justify the profession if museums are closing and councils have moth-balled collections?
Who wants this stuff any way?
If the commercial sector does pick up (ha ha ha), and commercial archs do not acknowledge and resist what is being lost, then they are more blind and short sighted than supposed.
Archaeologists against the cuts - BillyPilgrim - 21st October 2010
GnomeKing Wrote:Commercial archaeologists need to strongly rally against any substantive loss of service or protection...specialist council services (Museums, Curators, Conservators, Archivists) are already pushed to a minimal limit - in many cases substantive cuts effectively mean the end of a service, and spell a slow death for others already overworked and underpaid....Public Value via Scientific&Historic Collections is the only sustainable long term justification for our profession - the case needs to be made by all with a vested or intellectual interest.
Completely agree. The 15% cut to National Museums isn't too bad (compared to other areas), but with a 28% cut to each local authority, LPA archaeologists and local museums are going to be massively hit. Nottinghamshire and Lincolnshire are going to be the thin edge of the wedge.
Carrickavoy Wrote:This debate shouldn't be about posturing and protecting your piece of turf but rather about working together to fight back against cuts that are promoted by ideology and have nothing to do with austerity...Its time we worked together.
Here here!
I’ve recently (pre SR) spoken to someone working in politics. The message was that, unfortunately with so many fires to fight on so many fronts, archaeology & heritage fall far down the agenda unless we can make a case for ourselves. I think this chimes with the Public Archaeology editorial, which rightly chastises those archaeology organisations that have so far been a pretty ineffective public voice.
We need to stand together, we need to work with other groups / individuals with whom we share interests and we need to think creatively.
Archaeologists against the cuts - Unitof1 - 21st October 2010
Quote:
but with a 28% cut to each local authority
yet to hear about council tax rises
Archaeologists against the cuts - Kajemby - 21st October 2010
I am not sure I follow the logic of years in field = better field staff?
I have met quite a few "old lags" who do not seem to be able to finish paper work. Although they are capable of leaning on shovels moaning about how harder/colder/less well off things were in the beginning of time.
A person poorly trained 20 years ago, is just as likely to be making the same mistakes now as they were then. Except now the mistakes are compounded by "old lags" trying to teach new staff.
The key is to have standardised training across the board, with no exceptions. Experienced staff are only useful if they work hard and are trained properly. Someone can dig for twenty years, but does that make them good at their job? Not necessarily.
Archaeologists against the cuts - Oxbeast - 21st October 2010
I think one of the biggest changes we might see from the cuts are the changes to Higher Education. If graduates are going to come out with debts of 50K to 80K, lent at a commercial rate of interest, they aren't going to be able to become archaeologists. We might see fewer threads on here saying 'I've been offered six weeks in the arse end of nowhere and the company expects me to sort out my own accommodation, how do I do it?'. Perhaps we'll move to something like the German experience, where there are craftspeople with vocational training and academics with degrees. I'm not sure if this is a good or bad thing, but its certainly going to be a change from the last few years.
Archaeologists against the cuts - Mike.T. - 21st October 2010
Kajemby Wrote:I have met quite a few "old lags" who do not seem to be able to finish paper work. Although they are capable of leaning on shovels moaning about how harder/colder/less well off things were in the beginning of time.
A person poorly trained 20 years ago, is just as likely to be making the same mistakes now as they were then. Except now the mistakes are compounded by "old lags" trying to teach new staff.
The key is to have standardised training across the board, with no exceptions. Experienced staff are only useful if they work hard and are trained properly. Someone can dig for twenty years, but does that make them good at their job? Not necessarily.
No, not necessarily better but in all probability better. The picture of the ''old lags'' as you charmingly put it, definitely isn't the one i've seen.
Archaeologists against the cuts - monty - 21st October 2010
Come on you old lags !...........(myself included!)......time was........ but at least we know how to shovel shit all day in the rain and cold without moaning .....:face-stir: