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+--- Thread: DingDong (/showthread.php?tid=4876)
DingDong - barkingdigger - 14th April 2013
Dinosaur Wrote:Wasn't actually inconvenienced by any of those, and never saw the objection to the community charge, why should you pay more to have your bin emptied just because you earn more? people moan about taxes being unfair, that was one of the fairest taxes ever suggested, everyone pays the same for the same services? Council tax is grossly unfair, why should you pay more just because of your postcode?
Ordinarily I'd let this slide, but as we all know "history forgotten is history you're doomed to repeat"...
Before the Poll Tax, folks who owned things paid into the local Rates that supported public services (like the bins) as well as maintained the basic physical fabric of society. This was an extension of the old "noblesse oblige" principle whereby the nobs were supposed to support those under their stewardship. For poor folk renting a bedsit, the landlord paid the Rates out of what he charged in rent (supposedly). Everybody still paid Income Tax, based on their salary - it had nothing to do with Rates (or Poll tax).
Then Maggie came along and proposed a system whereby everybody over the Age of Consent paid the same amount to maintain civilisation, whether they were poor digger scroats crammed in six to a flat in an area where the Council spent zilch on the roads and other communal infrastructure, or a wealthy Banker rattling around his weekend mansion in the leafy suburbs before heading back to his penthouse in the City. This was particularly great for landlords - they no longer had to pay Rates on all their rental properties out of the rents they collected, and could just pocket the savings! Sadly the poor digger scroats found that they were still paying the same amount of rent each (no reduction for the ending of Rates - apparently "a rent increase was long overdue"), but also had to fork out this new Poll Tax on top. The rich got richer...
I was in Scotland at the time, and witnessed an entire nation sitting down and simply refusing to play along to this carpet-bagging tune.
The current Community Charge (or Council Tax) at least attempts to land the bulk of social responsibility for paying on those who own more stuff, so you pay more if your house is bigger. There are still far too many tax-dodging loopholes for the "hard-pressed" rich, but at least it got us away from Maggie's attempt at social revolution - the kind that all too easily lends French wax sculptresses a whole new career! Now if only we could get a proper amount of Income Tax out of the filthy rich...
DingDong - kevin wooldridge - 15th April 2013
barkingdigger Wrote:Then Maggie came along and proposed a system whereby everybody over the Age of Consent paid the same amount to maintain civilisation, ...
Not forgetting the iniquities of the Poll Tax where the citizens of the 3 richest London boroughs had a zero rating and paid nothing whilst those living in London's 3 poorest boroughs paid the highest Poll Tax in the land. The Tories were never able to make the 'profligate' spending of Lambeth for example look really profligate when a vast part of their spending went on prosecuting families who never had a chance of paying the tax in the first place. let alone the fines levied on them for failing to pay. Meanwhile the rich got richer.....who also can forget the archaeological unit who dobbed their casual staff in to the local authority as Poll Tax refusniks after the unit in question refused to pick up the Poll Tax tab for the hostel they were running and for which they were responsible. Many diggers got a fine (and bill) for the Poll Tax sent to their 'home' address months and years after they had ceased working for said unit.....
DingDong - P Prentice - 15th April 2013
Dinosaur Wrote:Oh dear, only No.9, that's hardly going to make the Garland estate rich...but it is getting a significant amount of media attention and encouraging debate in contrast to the noxious revisionism that would otherwise be whitewashed
DingDong - beamo - 15th April 2013
Oh dear, only No.9, that's hardly going to make the Garland estate rich...
Sadly the Garland estate will get very little anyway - the version storming the charts is from the theatre musical for which the rights are held by the Really Useful Group - royalties are therefore going to Andrew Lloyd-Webber.
Beamo
DingDong - Sith - 15th April 2013
I'm more than old enough to appreciate that Margaret Thatcher has a particular and divisive place in recent British history, but I wonder if using social media to express your hatred of the recently deceased will catch on?
I can't decide if I should be planning my play-lists and party themes for folk who have stitched me up over the years, or worrying about what happened to the last few thousand years of civilisation.
DingDong - monty - 15th April 2013
http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/news/content/view/full/131694
DingDong - Dinosaur - 15th April 2013
barkingdigger Wrote:The current Community Charge (or Council Tax) at least attempts to land the bulk of social responsibility for paying on those who own more stuff, so you pay more if your house is bigger....
...err, how do you think the Rating system worked then? Do check your facts! Ever heard of old phrases like 'rateable value'? And I must say my landlord takes the Council Tax out of the rent same as he used to take the Rates (shared tenancy so his problem), haven't notice being screwed at all
DingDong - Dinosaur - 15th April 2013
beamo Wrote:Sadly the Garland estate will get very little anyway - the version storming the charts is from the theatre musical for which the rights are held by the Really Useful Group - royalties are therefore going to Andrew Lloyd-Webber.
That makes the whole campaign even more shocking! :0
The No.9 was based on the network download chart (which if nothing else is more up-to-date than the others since 6pm cutoff point) - but have to concede the BBC seems to have had it at No.2, ditto Capitol I believe, how do they manage to get such totally different charts? No idea how the BBC compiles theirs these days, stopped taking any notice after they 'adjusted' the rules one year to stop Maiden having a well-deserved Xmas No.1 :face-crying:
DingDong - barkingdigger - 15th April 2013
Dinosaur Wrote:...err, how do you think the Rating system worked then? Do check your facts! Ever heard of old phrases like 'rateable value'? And I must say my landlord takes the Council Tax out of the rent same as he used to take the Rates (shared tenancy so his problem), haven't notice being screwed at all
Indeed - the point was that we went from an old system where owners paid for the upkeep of local fabric, to a new system where owners pay for upkeep, through a brief interlude of "Greed is good" insanity where the owners were let off with piffling payments while the poor were asked to pony up or be excluded from even the basic right to vote for the jokers in Parliament!
As for being able to pay your Council Tax through your rent, I accept you probably can. But that's because the owner of the building (if it isn't the Council) has the legal obligation to pay the tax. When the old Rates ended and the Poll Tax started, I didn't get a rent reduction (it used to include the Rates as part of my landlord's calculation), but I did get a shiny new bill for the Poll Tax! So effectively my landlord at the time (no name, no pack drill) pocketed what he used to pay out in Rates as a new profit, while I ended up paying twice - once to him, and once to the Gov't. Screwed? I certainly was!
And for those who didn't pay the new tax (often because their B'stard landlords said they would do it for them seeing as they were still charging full whack in rent) there was a nasty surprise when the Summonses started to arrive. Seems the individual was responsible for the tax, and landlords were quick to dob in their tennants round where I lived...
Facts not only checked, but lived through. Been there, got the summons...
DingDong - redexile - 15th April 2013
kevin wooldridge Wrote:I was thinking of Stanwick/Raunds (cos I know a few BAJRites spent time there...)
Ah yes. That was actually a whole series of sites. I worked on a couple of them. There were quite a few MSC workers on those as well, some of whom are still in archaeology.