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+--- Thread: Archaeologists against the cuts (/showthread.php?tid=3492)
Archaeologists against the cuts - ZSilvia - 22nd October 2010
Dinosaur Wrote:We (as a company) have looked for a way to 'grade' diggers for years but given up (apart from obvious things like chucking stuff like more jobs and more overtime at them) but it doesn't work, clients just look at number of shovels in action and will only pay a flat rate, they're not interested in paying for experience and skill. The couple of times 'experienced' and 'less experienced' pay rates have been tried here the 'less experienced' don't get why they're getting paid less.....pay scales for diggers in the merry world of non-council commercial archaeology don't seem to work too well, unless someone out there knows otherwise? Personally I think it's ******g outrageous that someone with 20-30 years of experience and who puts in a good day's work gets paid the same as someone with 2 weeks experience who can't use a shovel and spends all day counting down to 5 o'clock, mostly while hiding in the cabin. IFA don't help, they don't seem to think that long service deserves any particular recognition amongst diggers, their attitude seems to be that they if they haven't tried to 'better' themselves ...... :face-stir:
As one who is a recent graduate who just moved to the UK from the USA, praying to land that first job as an excavator, I would say that I wholly agree with you on pay scales. This isn't something unique to one industry. I've seen it in every job I've ever worked where more experienced and / or more skilled workers face a backlash from younger and / or lazier staff over pay. I can't even get a job digging for free right now and I have three years of experience with excellent references, it burns me up to know that there are less hardworking people moaning when their positions could be filled by people who are genuinely willing to work their asses off and climb the ladder.
Archaeologists against the cuts - GnomeKing - 22nd October 2010
previous threads have discussed this >>> "how can better professional conditions and pay be enacted if there are keen enthusiasts willing to do it for next-to-nothing"...
???
Archaeologists against the cuts - BAJR - 23rd October 2010
Its true.. and indeed without moving too far from the topic, we have to have a system in place where experience is credited.. where it is valued and where it is rewarded. Free digging should not be the way to get into archaeology - apprenticeships yes... but using peoples goodwill... no!
As it happens, I have over 25 years exp. and am on the same rate as those with a year. I am able to survey, draw photograph etc... but it is currently impossible to quantify. We have an oportunity here to create a new profession... a strong and respected profession... can we do it?
Archaeologists against the cuts - kevin wooldridge - 23rd October 2010
GnomeKing Wrote:previous threads have discussed this >>> "how can better professional conditions and pay be enacted if there are keen enthusiasts willing to do it for next-to-nothing"... ???
I wouldn't be so naive to say that it doesn't happen, but ..... IfA members and IfA registered organisations are committed to the IfA Code of Practice on the use of volunteers. http://www.archaeologists.net/sites/default/files/node-files/ifa_policy_statements.pdf If anyone has evidence that an IfA member or registered organisation is in contravention of this Code they might have reason to make a complaint against member or organisation.
Also recently an industrial tribunal has ruled that 'unpaid interns' carrying out tasks that would normally be defined as work are entitled to receive the UK minimum wage. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-10869607. Unfortunately the IfA in its most recent edition of 'The Archaeologist' magazine states that this ruling is not applicable to archaeology.... I have my doubts that they are correct in that opinion and I am sure they will come around to changing their minds if enough people tell them they are wrong...
Archaeologists against the cuts - BAJR - 23rd October 2010
Ah, god bless the IfA Of course the law applies... one for Prospect and Unite I feel. Lets see the unions make it clear that unpaid interns are not acceptable. BAJR has carried the G1 trainee level for some years now... making it absolutely clear that unpaid labour in a commercial environment is not acceptable.
Training can be given and volunteers can be use, but only IF, and this is my only concession, the number of people required to carry out the work initially would have been more than enough and that these volunteers/trainees are additional to requirements rather than filling an staffing shortage - AND that there are enough trained staff to work with these individuals at a ratio of c. 5-8 : 1
Volunteers can enhance a project, but must be in addition to the basic requirement - and fully integrated into a safe system.
Archaeologists against the cuts - Dinosaur - 23rd October 2010
We've only ever used volunteers (on the odd occasions when local societies etc have expressed an interest) to do work over and above work covered in a commercial contract, ie not part of the job. There's always bits of landscape that are going to get machined off, not dug etc that they can play with, learn something, find stuff that would otherwise have gone off in a truck, and generally have a good time and be enthusiastic (which makes a refreshing change from a lot of 'proffessional' diggers these days). Only downside is that the likes of myself always seem to be needed to work the weekend for free to keep track of them and record it all, but thats ok if it's enhancing my site. No one should be using free labour to fulfill commercial contracts (although I'm aware of a good few sites by several companies over the years where that has happened, grrrrr)
Archaeologists against the cuts - BAJR - 23rd October 2010
Can I ditto the Grrrrr. It has to be over and above - it has to be useful and it has to be !"generally have a good time and be enthusiastic!"
I too happily work for free on this... because it refreshes my love of what it is to be an archaeologist. It is possible to add this (note ADD THIS) to a development site.. when the developer sees the benefits of involving the community. THere are often grey areas.... but I do try to make sure that companies are very aware of my views.. and here they are again.
Archaeology should be for all... within da rooolz!
Archaeologists against the cuts - kevin wooldridge - 23rd October 2010
I wonder.....in the legal profession (and maybe even in some medical practices) it is not unusual for lawyers (and doctors and nurses) to pledge a pro bono committment for carefully chosen projects. This doesn't appear to devalue either their professionalism (or their wages, terms and conditions)....
Is this something that should be encouraged in archaeology if it were towards a defined goal....I am not thinking so much of volunteering to spend time with the amateur group at weekends (worthy though that is), but perhaps towards greater ends, campaigning on behalf of the discipline, committing time to a group such as Rescue or your appropriate trade union....or in these desperate days just reminding the public that we exist and how important our discipline is in oh so many ways....
Archaeologists against the cuts - BAJR - 24th October 2010
A very positive thought there.. one to run with. :face-approve:
Archaeologists against the cuts - Wax - 24th October 2010
I work with volunteers and as a volunteer and the key to this is that there should never be any financial imperative behind the work undertaken.
The big charities who work consistently with volunteers are well aware of all this and know that employment law can and will kick in if it looks like they have anything that might be interpreted as a contract for employment with their volunteers. It is in the wording and the “reward “the volunteers get for undertaking the work.
Contracts can be verbal and still stand up in law
My rule is I never do anything as a volunteer or with volunteers that has any financial imperative behind it and that I could not walk away from at any time.
And of course the Health & Safety at work act applies to volunteers as well (despite what people might think a "duty of care" runs through everything except the inside of your own home.)
Any unit that could not fulfil its contract with a client except by using volunteers is treading on very thin ice, unless it is a project specifically designed to allow volunteers to participate in archaeology and has no other aim but that.
So when volunteering ask what is the need for this work, then ask if it should be done by a volunteer?
I cannot see how the “ Big Society “ ideas of the present Government are not going to fall foul of employment law unless of course they change the law.:face-huh: