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+--- Thread: standards anyone? (/showthread.php?tid=4047)
standards anyone? - Wax - 22nd August 2011
I think Monty and I are listening to the same grape vine. However as I am currently low down in the chain it is all rumour and hear say though it comes from people I trust . It is those higher up in management who need to act against perceived corruption, but for whatever reason they do not . And indeed what could you do against consultants who work for very big mega developers who have the money and solicitors to squash the smallest squeak against them? And of course they are never breaking the law just sailing damned close to the edge and going against the spirit of archaeology.
We listen to the rumours and hear say and though I do take much of it with a pinch of salt there is at the heart of it sometimes a grain of truth. And no I do not have any proof
standards anyone? - Jack - 22nd August 2011
Ooo this all very tantalising, sounds like very juicy gossip. Shame I have no idea what anyone is talking about.xx(
standards anyone? - monty - 22nd August 2011
BAJR Wrote:In that case, what you should do is contact me info@bajr.org tell me about it, provide evidence and then we can talk about it.
Until then.... it is hearsay and rumour. you talk to me about it in confidence and thats the way it is done. if you don't trust me, the I am sorry. but until you contact me, then you are going to have to accept that these posts will disappear - for no other reason than you won't provide any evidence
The AUP is clear. if you make accusations - then first stop is me - off list.
I have yet to make an accusation !!!! I only speak the truth !! and as for contacting your self....well what are the legal ramifications if i decided to spill the beans........difficult subject for sure...........but surely within AUP as no names named..........
standards anyone? - monty - 22nd August 2011
Good post Wax !
standards anyone? - Dinosaur - 22nd August 2011
I've been taking the (so far unsuccessful) subtle(ish) approach when doing DBAs, describe all the nearby sites where archaeology was recorded, then a big list of all the ones with 'negative' results...with the clasue 'all dug by such-and-such unit' - hopefully eventually a curator will take the point when they've seen it for the tenth time
Have also had the situation of coming across someone from another unit doing a WB on the opposite street corner from a juicy BA/Med site I supervised back in the '80s - has to be said the guy wasn't exactly closely watching what the machine was ripping out 50m away (at a guess, from considerable local knowledge, metres of stratigraphy), and he really, really had no interest in what had come up a few yards away.....strange...:face-thinks:
standards anyone? - BAJR - 22nd August 2011
For the benefit of the public as well as monty
On a public forum you have claimed that as a matter of fact there is a consultant (or consultants) that are accepting money( or as you say hefty back-handers) as well as falsifying archaeology ( pretending no archaeology exists)
Now, this means that an air of suspicion falls on all consultants, and that includes me - when I act in that capacity. Because you are not naming names (which is against the AUP), then it means that all consultants are tarnished. plus please give some of us who have or still are been in teh planning system as development control archaeologists... we can see through ploys.
I am asking once again... get in touch privately, - as per normal, this is confidential, but allows me to be confident about allowing accuasations (yes I am afraid you have accused consultants (unnamed and unknown numbers) of accepting back-handers to 'lose' archaeology. The legal ramifications are that I am aware of wtf is going on, and remember, this forum is such that I am the one that is legally responsible for all content. So do me the courtesy of telling me the rumour, grapevine, hearsay or TRUTH (which it may be -?) I simpley don't know. For al I know you could be suggesting that I have taken back handers when I act as a consultant.
You see what I mean?
You can't just say...
Quote:there are many instances of Consultancies taking backsheesh to pretend there are no archaeological implications and forcing poor standards and bare minima............ County Archaeologists cannot and do not monitor ALL projects............it's a cruel world out there !!! .well known practices but never brought to light and have increased over the last few years with the state of the economy........come on we all know IT DOES HAPPEN !!!!!
That just leaves the the door open to doubting ALL consultants.
please monty... let me know on a completely confidential level --- and the same goes for everyone.
On another note, I am very sad about which way this thread went. :face-topic:
standards anyone? - BAJR - 22nd August 2011
Quote:We listen to the rumours and hear say and though I do take much of it with a pinch of salt there is at the heart of it sometimes a grain of truth. And no I do not have any proof
I love rumours... normally I find most are just that...
Before we start pointing fingers... just where does it end? The digger on the site? Complicit? or the Project Officer? Complicit? or the curator?
standards anyone? - Wax - 22nd August 2011
I am afraid we are all complicit at every level probably, with the notable exception of our host. That is not meant sarcastically and the rap across the knuckles was a reminder that AUP is there for a reason. Back to the topic the situation described by Dinosaur is one I am very familiar with how is it one companies watching briefs will find nothing whilst on an adjacent site another will find plenty to comment on? Is it the result of one company using very inexperienced people while another will only use experienced people? Should curators monitor this and specifically state the minimum levels of experience of staff to be used on particular jobs, are archaeological standards the responsibility of the curators?
standards anyone? - BAJR - 22nd August 2011
Thanks you Wax for returning the thread to the thread. Even I am as guilty - though I try not to be
I was on one site where the eval showed one thing and the full excavation (9based on it) was stuffed full. nobody was really to blame, it it the issue of trying to fit the infinite possibility of archaeology into the finite known of development.
recently the lovely Mark gave a talk in Edinburgh and showed a field with cows in it... and asked, is ther archaeology in the field... the answers were yes (we thought it was a trick) the reality? dunno?
Archaeology needs standards for each element WB Eval, Excvation ones that cover the country (not change from county to county) and a means of evaluating the quality... not the cost saving. Surely a worthy project for IfA?
standards anyone? - monty - 22nd August 2011
NOT ALL consultancies/consultants are tarnished by what i have said...... that in itself is an accusation !!!!...........i have also acted in that capacity ..... those concerned know who they are .......and i will not be naming names having taken legal advice...........a bit off thread i know but this stuff needs to be aired in the parlous state of commercial archaeology as we know it in the 21st century. I rest my case and will keep me gob shut ..........................................xx(