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+--- Thread: Have you used the ICE Conditions of Contract? (/showthread.php?tid=963)
Have you used the ICE Conditions of Contract? - BAJR Host - 3rd July 2008
An interesting reply Sith .. :face-approve: and a typical one from Uo1
Just when we were getting somewhere.
Perhaps we are seeing a window onto Uo1 working practice :face-stir:
"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu
Have you used the ICE Conditions of Contract? - Unitof1 - 3rd July 2008
hosty Have you read or used the wonderful contract?
Have you used the ICE Conditions of Contract? - BAJR Host - 3rd July 2008
Read... Yes
Used ... No
"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu
Have you used the ICE Conditions of Contract? - 1man1desk - 3rd July 2008
Posted by Unit of 1:
Quote:quote:So far the structure outlined by you is that there is an Employer. This Employer employs a consultant and I think that this very same employer also employs the archaeological contractor. We would appear to have two contracts with the employer bundled into one. Alternatively it could be that in the bundle the Employer employs a consultant who then employs an archaeological contractor.Yes, the same Employer employs both the Consultant and the Contractor, but separately, not under the same contract. Also, the Conditions of Contract under discussion are aimed principally at the contract between the Employer and the Contractor - I think that I outlined typical contractual arrangements with the Consultant in a previous post (they can vary quite a lot).
Normally the Consultant and Contractor would both be separately employed by the Employer. However, it is also possible for the Employer and Consultant to be the same, with the caveat that the Consultant is a named individual, not a company. So, on some occasions, the company I work for is the Employer, while I as an individual am the Consultant.
Quote:quote:Is the contract specifically saying, this contract has nothing to do with the engineers? Then why is it being presented thought the auspices of the engineers? Is there not a possibility that the IFA could release a copy of the contractual relationship at a generic level?The contract was written and published in partnership with the ICE for several very good reasons:
1 - they had the expertise in contracts, which the IFA did not, and were willing to provide it at no charge;
2 - they had a specialist publishing house that already publishes a series of related contracts, and were willing to publish this one as part of that series, whereas the IFA had no such facility;
3 - the ICE series of contracts has a long history and benefits from widespread trust and credibility with potential Employers, so production of this new contract as part of that series enabled it to benefit from that trust and credibility;
4 - the ICE and other engineering bodies represented on the committee that wrote the contract were keen to help, because they thought it was in the mutual interest of their membership and the membership of the IFA (and all other archaeologists), to make a standard contract for archaeological works available.
1man1desk
to let, fully furnished
Have you used the ICE Conditions of Contract? - Unitof1 - 3rd July 2008
Whats the idea behind the named individual, as you say you work for a company and but then can act as a named individual. I would find it hard to see the difference. Is this an engineering custom? What does the contract ask the named individual to do?
Have you used the ICE Conditions of Contract? - 1man1desk - 3rd July 2008
In relation to the exchange between Unit of 1 and Sith, what seems to be happening is a confusion between the Conditions of Contract and the Specification or Written Scheme of Investigation.
The WSI or Spec will set out the scope of archaeological works, archaeological standards to be applied, the archaeological methods, and the archaeological responses to unexpected circumstances such as the discovery of Stonehenge II.
The Conditions of Contract govern the relationships between the Employer, the Contractor and the Consultant during the implementation of the works. They say nothing about the actual works themselves. They do provide a contractual mechanism for changing the scope of works, including increasing it, and for fair pricing of the increased scope.
Part of the role of the Consultant is to advise the Employer as to whether additional work proposed by the Contractor is reasonable and justified in the light of unexpected discoveries.
1man1desk
to let, fully furnished
Have you used the ICE Conditions of Contract? - 1man1desk - 3rd July 2008
Posted by Unit of 1:
Quote:quote:Whats the idea behind the named individual, as you say you work for a company and but then can act as a named individual. I would find it hard to see the difference. Is this an engineering custom? What does the contract ask the named individual to do?The idea of the named individual is that only that person, not the company they work for, has the powers and responsibilities of the Consultant. That way you can ensure that those powers and responsibilities are exersised only by someone who has the relevant expertise and the necessary knowledge of the project.
For instance, I work for a company that employs several thousand people, of whom fewer than 15 are archaeologists. When I am the named Consultant, only I - an experienced archaeologist - can make the relevant decisions, and I am required to do so on the basis of my own professional judgement. I can delegate some (not all) of my powers to a named representative, but I am still responsible for what that representative does, so I had better make sure that they are competent to do the job.
1man1desk
to let, fully furnished
Have you used the ICE Conditions of Contract? - Sith - 4th July 2008
Quote:quote:Originally posted by 1man1desk
In relation to the exchange between Unit of 1 and Sith, what seems to be happening is a confusion between the Conditions of Contract and the Specification or Written Scheme of Investigation.
Apologies for any confusion, I was simply trying to illustrate the relationship between the various roles.
D. Vader
Senior Consultant
Vader Maull & Palpatine
Archaeological Consultants
Don't make me destroy you, Curator
Have you used the ICE Conditions of Contract? - Unitof1 - 4th July 2008
Still holding my breath and waiting for the arrival of the wonderful contract although there has been no news from the library service, supposes that could be good news
Conditions of Contract and the Specification or Written Scheme of Investigation. Its impossible to get those confused. I find it best to keep all those terms together in the same sentence.
I don?t buy the archaeologists lack of contractual knowledge. Archaeologists work on them day in and out.
I dont see whats so wonderful about a specialist publishing house. We live in the age of the web. If its so special the ifa should get its own. All that fantastic knowledge sharing hidden and theres guides as well. The ifas got loads of guides it should take them off the web and cut down a tree and charge 31.99 quid a pop
As for credibility and trust rubbing of onto the archaeologists by association with a bunch of preferred contractor strategic partners I think the same could be said the other way round unless the engineers know of a better archaeological association to rub up to.
As for the conflictions of your named consultant being subbed out of a company of thousands being able
Quote:quote: Part of the role of the Consultant is to advise the Employer as to whether additional work proposed by the Contractor is reasonable and justified in the light of unexpected discoveries
might suggest that you are casting aspersions on the character of a fellow archaeologist I could start with most of principle 1 at Code 1.1 and work my way through well through all the principles, man? what kind of archaeological contractor have you advised the Employer to get,
why are you finding unexpected discoveries, were your dt and evals inadequate? Have you heard of contingencies?
As a model maybe the ifa, now that its got experience at this making special contracts for special groups, could start some tie ins with other groups like farmers, landowners, the NFU, CLA, architects, small business, water board, DTI, environment agency, English heritage, the national trust, time team, undertakers, people who have an invisible friend who gives hope to all those who suffer after having made them suffer in the first place. The ifa will end up dripping with credibility. I am not sure that there would be any space for named consultants in these contracts as it could be that having a named consultant is part of the shared copyright with the engineers (not that they are named in the contract)
Does anyone know what was used on Heathrow?.presumably it was before the wonderful contract and was a not so good like the consultants were unnamed?
Have you used the ICE Conditions of Contract? - Unitof1 - 23rd July 2008
Have just been and inquired at the library as to the likelihood of the wonderful contract arriving. Inter library loaning appears to be a mystery all of its own. They could not tell me if anybody else had a copy or when one might appear, apparently the process will end up at the British Library but could take weeks. I pointed out that it had been weeks already. Was it important I was asked. Don?t worry its only archaeologyical. I was reminded of my ?2.50 and apparently that wont cover the full costs, which made me feel a bit guilty, especially with the Liberians below inflation pay constraint. I was asked if it was a book.