+- BAJR Federation Archaeology (http://www.bajrfed.co.uk)
+-- Forum: BAJR Federation Forums (http://www.bajrfed.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: The Site Hut (http://www.bajrfed.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?fid=7)
+--- Thread: PAS Treasure Report (/showthread.php?tid=1218)
PAS Treasure Report - mlewis - 25th November 2008
Just for clarification, archaeologists DO have to report Treasure. The Treasure Act says 'a person [any person] who finds an object which he believes or has reasonable grounds for believing is Treasure must notify the coroner...'. This is clarified in the Treasure Act Code of Practice (note 25) which says 'the duty to report lies with the individual who made the find and this duty to report applies to everyone, including archaeologists'. I hope that helps
Michael Lewis
Deputy Head of Portable Antiquites & Treasure, British Museum
PAS Treasure Report - BAJR Host - 25th November 2008
I certainly hope the simple concept has got through now !
"Gie's a Job.."
Prof. 'Dolly' Parton
PAS Treasure Report - garybrun - 25th November 2008
Quote:quote:Originally posted by BAJR HostI hope it has.
I certainly hope the simple concept has got through now !
"Gie's a Job.."
Prof. 'Dolly' Parton
Just shows you how little the professionals know.
No disrespect meant here. [:p]
Website for responsible Metal Detecting
http://www.ukdfd.co.uk
Recording Our Heritage For Future Generations.
PAS Treasure Report - shovelnomore - 26th November 2008
None taken, and I reiterate that you don't deserve to be taken seriously as a professional if you don't know the law(or evidently can't be @rsed to look it up when it's readily available).
PAS Treasure Report - garybrun - 26th November 2008
Seriously though...
53 treasure finds reported... 4.2%
Now that isn't a lot is it???
To be honest I have never seen anything on archaeological forums talking about archaeologist reporting treasure.
This thread also shows how little people (archaeologists) know about their duties and responsibilities regarding the law.
I'll post this question on a few other forums and see what the response is.
Website for responsible Metal Detecting
http://www.ukdfd.co.uk
Recording Our Heritage For Future Generations.
PAS Treasure Report - Austin Ainsworth - 26th November 2008
Gary, will you also report back here and let us know if detectorists are equally ignorant of the law or is it just archaeologists that you like to bash?
![[Image: OzinLondon.jpg]](http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg189/boltonsquanderer/OzinLondon.jpg)
PAS Treasure Report - BAJR Host - 26th November 2008
The point here is that in general.. and that is 99.99999% of cases.. we don't actually find treasure... thats not the area we deal with. In Scotland of course, it is different, and often misunderstandings can creep in there too... were number of Treasure Finds is divided between number of Finders and multiplied by Population divided by square kilometres and then doubled... etc...
Every Site, every assemblage must be put through the Treasure Panel Reporting Procedure... it is then either decided as Treasure or not... IF it is decided to be a Treasure Case, it then goes through a rigorous procedure, to establish validity of claim..
a recent (infamous) case, proves the point on the tough nature of Scottish TT
Quote:quote: One particularly problematic case, alluded to in last yearâs report, was brought to a conclusion
during this period. This concerned the reporting to National Museums Scotland staff, and
thereafter to the TTU, of a wide variety of Roman finds of metal, pottery and glass from an
extensive area not far south of the Highland Edge. The material in question, recovered mainly by
the use of metal-detectors, potentially represented a very significant addition to the corpus of
Roman sites and Roman finds in Scotland. For a number of reasons there were doubts about
whether all this material was genuinely from the location mentioned. Following extensive
investigation, including the involvement for the first time on behalf ofTT in Scotland of forensic
scientists, it was concluded these finds were almost certainly recent introductions to the findspot
from outwith Scotland. In light of this, the extensive collection was not claimed on behalf of the
Crown, as at least a considerable proportion of it did not meet the requirements to be treated
through Scottish TT. It is clearly the case that material which elsewhere â whether further south
within Britain or indeed further afield â may hardly be marketable, might potentially attract an ex
gratia payment through the TT system in Scotland. The TTU and the Panel are conscious of this
possibility, and so, with the advice of the QLTR, have put a statement on our website to the effect
that we will investigate any further cases deemed to be suspicious.
Here, large reserves of time and effort were used to ensure that false reporting did not take place, thus ruining the historical/archaeological record of Scotland. To say the TT is rigorous is an understatement.. and unlike our Southern Cousins, the TT in Scotland is a voluntary panel, unpaid, but still effective... more cash please!
I don't think we can draw too many conclusions from statistics and comment ... You are right.. that many archaeologist will not know all the rules and regs... though.. a digger or supervisor or Illustrator or Surveyor, for example, is not going to have to.
It would be like asking why a detectorist does not know about PPG 16
"Gie's a Job.."
Prof. 'Dolly' Parton
PAS Treasure Report - garybrun - 26th November 2008
Quote:quote:Originally posted by Austin AinsworthHi Austin.
Gary, will you also report back here and let us know if detectorists are equally ignorant of the law or is it just archaeologists that you like to bash?
In all honesty I'm not bashing archaeologists at all.
The very first question on this thread was a valid one.
When some of the answers show that not many understood the TT act and thought archaeologists where exempt.
Whether detectorists are ignorant of the law shouldn't come into this.
Now there is a very big difference here.. and my point is this.
Professionals should know the law... there really is no excuse for it. Just because I bring it to your attention doesn't mean I'm bashing archaeologist.
Also you don't know me at all.. I am a metal detectorist and I do work hard to have the gospel of recording propagated and to have TT laws obeyed.
Website for responsible Metal Detecting
http://www.ukdfd.co.uk
Recording Our Heritage For Future Generations.
PAS Treasure Report - voice of reason - 26th November 2008
Indeed Austin and David - the responsibility for adherence to the law in this, as in much else in contracting archaeology, would not be a responsibility of many contributing to this forum.
I wouldn't expect our site staff to have a detailed knowledge of the operation of the Scheduled Monument Consent process, or HMRC regulations, but the designated people in our conmpany do have that responsibility. The finds from site go through systems where suitably qualified and knowledgeable staff do assess this kind of thing.
The simple fact is that we don't actually find much "Treasure" (in the English/Welsh legal definition as opposed to the Scottish one). Since the introduction of the Act we have only had one occurrence where "Treasure" was found (and we have done a large number of projects since that date).
But hey, Gary, don't let the fact that the stats are likely to be a true reflection of the situation in professional archaeology get in the way of touting this around the 'other forums' to which you allude.
PAS Treasure Report - RedEarth - 26th November 2008
Quote:quote:
In all honesty I'm not bashing archaeologists at all.
The very first question on this thread was a valid one.
When some of the answers show that not many understood the TT act and thought archaeologists where exempt.
Whether detectorists are ignorant of the law shouldn't come into this.
Now there is a very big difference here.. and my point is this.
Professionals should know the law... there really is no excuse for it. Just because I bring it to your attention doesn't mean I'm bashing archaeologist.
Also you don't know me at all.. I am a metal detectorist and I do work hard to have the gospel of recording propagated and to have TT laws obeyed.
I would certainly consider myself to be a bit vague on issues of the law regarding to treasure, but when I actually find some treasure I'll be sure to deal with it as properly as I can. Given that I have never found any and don't expect that I or any of my collegues ever will, I'm not reading up on it every night. In the same way I am a bit hazy on many aspects of the law, is it legal to shoot a Welsman in Chester for example? When the situation arises I will have to check!
Detectorists on the other hand don't really have much excuse for knowing the law regarding treasure because as I far as I am aware, and forgive me if I am being a little naive, the discovery of treasure is largely the point of metal detecting. Or is it for the collection of tractor parts and old nails?