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Druids and Avebury Reburial - Bier Keller - 13th April 2009
"...murder, rape and slavery of tribal peoples (who thought and lived differently)"
So in ye olden times, 'fore those dastardly Romans turned up, the indigenous folk of Britain never ever invaded each others areas, never burned down villages, never raped, killed and plundered nor took people captive as slaves to be used, abused and traded? (perhaps we need to look again at the Llyn Cerrig Bach assemblage?).
Those swords these folk used (and indeed further afield,as evidenced at the classic sites of La Tene and Hallstatt) were purely were decoration, for hanging on the wall of the round or longhouse. Our ancient ancestors were all peace loving folk, who only got a bad press from ill informed Greek and Roman writers?
Beer is your friend
Druids and Avebury Reburial - Oddie - 14th April 2009
For Many Druids, and certainly CoBDO, spirituality is as real as scientific data. Idea forms identity, is interpreted and, through belilef, known and expressed. The problem comes through interpretation eg. A burial mound may be interpreted in various ways ? a symbol of power in the landscape, a commemoration to person or tribe / a reliquary of the guardian of the ancestral landscape or even as a pregnant goddess from which the dead are reborn. All are relevant, and both are given meaning by the present thereby creating a known ? or imagined past. In this way, ethical concerns / guidelines of social minority groups such as of archaeologists / musologists and Druids are all equally meaningful and worthy of due and fair consideration.
The PPG16 guide to respecting, whenever possible, our ancestors in situ is great, and the new Ministry of Justice guidelines on non-Christian burials go some way to addressing the imbalance that exists between Christian/non-Christian burials. Unfortunately, the MoJ guidelines also permit retention if applications are made ? so our ancestors sadly remain in storage.
I do not doubt that archaeology cares about the dead, it?s just that archaeology seems only to care about it?s own thinking processes and to disregard alternative interpretations.
This is very dangerous, and the thin end of the wedge. Look at what the quest for knowledge and power did in the ?new? worlds we ?discovered?. The end result of not considering others is meaningless cultural displacement and everything that comes with that. This included the theft of ancestral remains (because they had meanings that did not fit with those of 'trad' europeans), murder, rape and slavery of tribal peoples (who thought and lived differently). All this in the name of progress. I find it very disturbing that such disregard (fronted by the never ending quest for knowledge) continues today. Such a spiritual poverty is post-colonial and a shameful violence that is alive today. It is an abuse of privalage and power. Do you truly advocate the further disintegration of civil liberties?
Notwithstanding the above, I know that archaeology does care. Most I have worked and studied with are non-violent and are not extremist or militant. Indeed, one can see spirituality in many people who claim no religion. Even in the US and Australia, science realises it?s mistakes. Tribes remain displaced.
COBDO also suggest that the excavated dead are linked to landscape, and through the bone, to the spirit body. In this way, bones have meanings that extend beyond inanimate data. To argue DCMS guidelines or other thinking processes that do not consider or attempt to define or place spirit does not make a convincing argument against CoBDO?s requests for reburial. This simply draws attention to an inability or unwillingness to re-think archaeology.
I truly wanted Druids, Pagans, archaeologists, scientists and the public to respond to the consultation ? hence my work with the media. Something tells me that most responses of consultees will not equally reflect the populous. In the face of great adversity, saracasm, back stabbing, I tried my best to reach people.
Reburial Officer
COBDO
Oddie
Druids and Avebury Reburial - RedEarth - 14th April 2009
Woah! Got a spooky sense of deja vu then...
Druids and Avebury Reburial - Digitaldigging - 14th April 2009
"Most I have worked and studied with are non-violent and are not extremist or militant."
As are most bin-men, anglers and formula one drivers. What's your point?
"Indeed, one can see spirituality in many people who claim no religion."
Are you claiming religious status for your organisation?
"For Many Druids, and certainly CoBDO, spirituality is as real as scientific data."
So you're freely admitting that you are unable to tell the difference between internal non-verifiable intuition and externaly verifiable facts? You surprise me.
Druids and Avebury Reburial - tom wilson - 14th April 2009
Quote:quote:Originally posted by Oddie
Something tells me that most responses of consultees will not equally reflect the populous. In the face of great adversity, saracasm, back stabbing, I tried my best to reach people.
Oddie, this online forum is populated by a lot of very broad-minded and inclusively-minded people. In general, archaeologists are like that. If you think we are against you, why don't you try the Daily Mail online forums?*
* ETA: which, sadly, are far more representative of the UK general populace
freeburmarangers.org
Druids and Avebury Reburial - Oxbeast - 14th April 2009
To which I can only add that there seems to be very little point in comissioning a public consultation and then deciding that you aren't going to accept its results before it has concluded. Your whole argument is framed to reinforce your self-identification as a victim.
Druids and Avebury Reburial - invisibleplanet - 15th May 2009
How does Oddie feel about the Levantine Neolithic practice of removing the skull from the body, plastering it and placing shells in its eye-sockets, then retaining the plastered skull in a prominent position within the confines of its kinship-group/community?
How would Oddie feel if, in some few thousand years, someone removed whatever remains of his skeleton (presuming any of it remains) and then reburied it by encasing it entirely in concrete with none of it in contact with the earth?
Druids and Avebury Reburial - Oddie - 10th June 2009
Quote:quote:Originally posted by invisibleplanet
How does Oddie feel about the Levantine Neolithic practice of removing the skull from the body, plastering it and placing shells in its eye-sockets, then retaining the plastered skull in a prominent position within the confines of its kinship-group/community?
How would Oddie feel if, in some few thousand years, someone removed whatever remains of his skeleton (presuming any of it remains) and then reburied it by encasing it entirely in concrete with none of it in contact with the earth?
Fool you are.
Engine trouble turned out to be me crank shaft - worst possible thing.
Oddie
Druids and Avebury Reburial - Digitaldigging - 16th June 2009
Yoda, you are not.
Druids and Avebury Reburial - Oddie - 3rd July 2009
Fool
Oddie