+- BAJR Federation Archaeology (http://www.bajrfed.co.uk)
+-- Forum: BAJR Federation Forums (http://www.bajrfed.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: The Site Hut (http://www.bajrfed.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?fid=7)
+--- Thread: On the Nature of Forum boards (/showthread.php?tid=1375)
On the Nature of Forum boards - Velociraptor - 28th January 2009
On the Nature of Forum boards
The most obvious thing to note on any Internet forum board is, that though they may get many members joining it, very few actually post anything.
Is it a case of "he who puts his head above the parapet wall (posts something) is he who will get his head shot at"?
I am sue it is a case of that "fear" in some cases.
Also, some people are "into" reading mesages but not writing them.
Whilst running one forum board, I sent a TEST MESSAGE to see if the members were still alive and seeing the messages, due to the inactivity. Rather than reply to my email question, two members actually PHONED ME to say they could see the messages but did not like writing emails on forums. Huhhhh????
DEMOCRACY = the rule of the "Demos" (people).
In ancient Athens, 90 per cent were slaves who could not vote?
The freeborn women could not vote?
So it was left to the freeborn males to decide policy?
But a lot of them did not speak up. It was the few (Oligarchy) that dared speak up in public and thus shaped policy?
On a forum board, it is the few who dare type messages that shape the thoughts / discussions, or can we say that at least more peole support the forum opinion poles?
Maybe "Mr BAJR Host" has wondered whether ALL UK arcaheologists are aware of BAJR? Whether all who want to write on it, do have enough time and computer access?
At least "the general feeling" is that BAJR is making a positive steps, regardless of widely different viewpoints.
On the Nature of Forum boards - BAJR Host - 28th January 2009
A... the fun of forums... and where are the people!
I do wonder... and sometimes am amazed...
BAJR Federation will step up to a new technology... Web SMS.. where even those with a lowly mobile can stay in touch.. vote.. and have a say...
?When a sinister person means to be your enemy, they always start by trying to become your friend.?
William Blake
On the Nature of Forum boards - Velociraptor - 28th January 2009
I like the "idea" of your BAJR Federation idea.
What it might achieve, I do not know.
You may have come to the same conclusion as I about forum boards.
That is, if they are "just" an opinion forum then the members just use it to shove messages (opinions) at each other but nothing ever comes of it, as the thing only takes place on that website mand has no effect /relevance on real-life happenins (the forum is a "talking shop", no more).
It is "using" the board, to co-ordinate / start something that is real and happening, off the board, that is the tricky bit?
This may seem brutal to suggest but....
Have you tried to imagine what things you CANNOT effect?
What things you might partly effect?
And what things you can definitely effect?
If you know what you cannot effect, then it is pointless encouraging members to write / worry about those things - just use the emails / federation to generate "happenings" in regards to the things that you can effect?
Easier to type / suggest, than to do.....I admit.
On the Nature of Forum boards - Dirty Dave Lincoln - 29th January 2009
"I like the 'idea' of your BAJR Federation idea
What it might achieve, I do not know"
Velociraptor might come across as a great sceptic-even on the idea of a BAJR Federation, I would say that any organisation needs people who have a healthy dose of scepticism as they can often find 'faults' with a system/practise or an idea. Then these flaws can be corrected or at the least highlighted so that the group as a whole can try and work out a better way of doing things.
So I would suggest that the BAJR Federation needs people such as Velociraptor as members,as opposed to just 'posting' on the forum board!!:face-approve:
Velociraptor,you've known me long enough to know i'm not going to stop nagging you till you join-as someone once said to me "dont you ever STOP nagging?" I replied "NO-not till I get what I want, why-do you think silent meditation would work better?" remember?}
On the Nature of Forum boards - Velociraptor - 29th January 2009
Actually Mr "Dirty Dave".....
I joined several days ago.
I was not aware that you required me to announce it? (wink!)
Of course, we and "Hostie" know that people sticking their names on a list, is not THE aim, in itself. At this stage, I compare names on a list to the idea of those Myspace or Photobucket pages: "Yeah people have them and join them to each others' to show support but what practical value does JUST having your page joined to someone else's or JUST having your name on a list?"
It is the NEXT STAGE - getting those "joined" people on the list to create a real-life happening.
I have put my name on the list becaue it is free, does no harm and think that "I hope" it might lead to something but I honestly cannot see "how" this very second.
My message (at this very second) to anyone involved in IFA, Prospect or even this new BAJR Federation list is: "Keep doing what you trying to do because you might BY FLUKE hit on at least a part-solution".....but I do myself remain sceptical.
The "Key Problem" in my view, is the way that archaeology is funded in this country - "Developer Funded". If you remove that, then 95% of archaeology activity in this county ceases? Only the Universities and Amateur Local Societies will remain?
In a recession, there is NO WAY that a government is going to increase funding / improve legislation for field archaeology. It will stay the same or decrease.
An Archaeology Unit or Museum is a LUXURY ITEM in any society.
Priorities are food, shelter, health, education, jobs - that sort of thing. How often have we heard: "Archaeology sounds interesting but no one wants to pay for it" and that is true. If "Developer Funded" was not compulsory (and not replaced by something else), professional archaeology would be wiped out?
So perhaps, considerring what I have typed above, we have our first USE for the Federation project? Finding ways of keeping the public aware of archaeology, supportive of it? (The aim being, that the government at least continue to feel obliged to keep some sort of legal provision in place, however imperfect?) I am not sure how this
can be done without advertising funds though. This paragraph remains PIE IN THE SKY.
"Developer Funding" is what perpetuates the DIVISION within archaeology. Let's face it Dave, we cannot even agree on a CONTEXT SHEET LAYOUT that everyone in the UK will use, never mind the same pay scales, job titles, job descriptions or promotion ladders - universal to all UK units.
There is no incentive for units to do this because with "Developer Funding" archaeology, it is a case of every unit, against the other.
You could (in theory) NULLIFY the effect of developer funding policy, if all the units in the same county agreed to charge the same tender price, pay the same wages, write the same style / size of report. It would then be irrelevant which unit a developer went to as he would get the same price and service, from any unit. Units could thus get an equal slice of the action?
(How could a BAJR Federation group bring this about?)
Of course, are the most notorious undercutting units really going to agree to what I type in the two paragraphs above? They (the bosses) would be the ones who would have to increase the wages and conditions of their employees in order to "come up to the standard of the rest"? And would they simultaneously argue, that the top paying unit in the county, should also "lower its wages slightly" - to bring itself in line with the other units in the county?
Enough typing for now
On the Nature of Forum boards - BAJR Host - 29th January 2009
I like the way you think Velociraptor .. indeed there is almost zen like simplicity in dealing with those things that cannot be affected.. flow around them, as to oppose them or challange them will use energy best used on things that can be affected.
Quality will out... and perhaps context record sheets are not too far from each other.. job titles no longer have direct meaning.. you are / will be acknowledged from your responsibilities / abilities - where skills are benefits.. where study and cpd has a point..
you can pay what you want.. but will you get what you need.??
?When a sinister person means to be your enemy, they always start by trying to become your friend.?
William Blake
On the Nature of Forum boards - shovelnomore - 30th January 2009
Quote:quote:Originally posted by Velociraptor
You could (in theory) NULLIFY the effect of developer funding policy, if all the units in the same county agreed to charge the same tender price, pay the same wages, write the same style / size of report. It would then be irrelevant which unit a developer went to as he would get the same price and service, from any unit. Units could thus get an equal slice of the action?
(How could a BAJR Federation group bring this about?)
[?]
Erm. Illegal. Cartel. Price-fixing.
On the Nature of Forum boards - Velociraptor - 1st February 2009
Erm. Illegal. Cartel. Price-fixing. says shovelnomore
Velociraptor replies:
In effect - yes! You could say that but since it has not actually happened in real life, there is nothing to worry about, is there?
Friday night at the pub, we discussed these BAJR postings:
If it were allowed, would units in the same county "really" adopt common prices etc?
Our conclusion was NO. The unit that was doing the best, would gladly see the other units in its local area "go bust".
The reality always has been, that archaeology units are a BUSINESS.
Many units will go bust before this recession is over?
.....and talking about the Nature of Forum boards, we noted that the vast majority of members on the board, do not post - but this is the same phenomena on ANY type of forum board.
(So, we have said these things in the pub and on the board - and we still cannot envisage what these discussions can do, to promote some sort of real-life positive happenning).
The "debate" continues?
On the Nature of Forum boards - Dirty Dave Lincoln - 5th February 2009
A forum such as BAJR is truly an amazing creation:face-approve: it allows people to exercise their right of freedom of expression (within AUP naturally) and folks- be they diggers,PO's upward,curators,consultants,MDers etc can freely post on whatever topic they like to and express their oppinions,give advice to questions asked or even just debate with others.
The drawback is,only a small percentage choose to do so:face-huh:
This is a great shame to be honest, I know people have a freedom of choice as to wether they contribute or not-but surely the more folks who join in the better the debate and polls will be more representative.
Everyone has an oppinion and everyone has a voice, they should use it.