+- BAJR Federation Archaeology (http://www.bajrfed.co.uk)
+-- Forum: BAJR Federation Forums (http://www.bajrfed.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: The Site Hut (http://www.bajrfed.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?fid=7)
+--- Thread: Experienced Site Assistants (/showthread.php?tid=1600)
Pages:
1
2
Experienced Site Assistants - BAJR Host - 2nd June 2009
http://www.bajr.org/Employment/UKEmploymentDetails.asp?ID=8032
Experienced Site Assistants
Employer: Humber Field Archaeology
Location: Yorkshire Wolds near Bridlington
Closing Date: 10 June 2009
"Entrepreneurs are simply those who understand that there is little difference between obstacle and opportunity and are able to turn both to their advantage."
Niccolo Machiavelli
Experienced Site Assistants - mercenary - 2nd June 2009
Good to see the jobs coming in again.
I can't help but notice that it's another case of rolled-up pay though, where the holiday pay is part of the wage. Leaving alone for the moment that this practice is supposed to be illegal, does the wage make the BAJR minimum once the 8-9% holiday pay is removed?
I don't mean to pick on HAP because they're not alone (Another Yorkshire unit, YAT has also done this for years), but it is still a bit devious.
Perhaps we should just be grateful that there are jobs at any wage?
Experienced Site Assistants - kevin wooldridge - 2nd June 2009
Absolutely and definitively illegal!! The attached link summarises the law and explains the European court ruling
http://www.mondaq.com/article.asp?articleid=56304
In essence nobody can be denied their right to take time off at the minimum pro-rata rate in force in European/UK law. This right cannot be waived by compensatory payment, therefore such payments are illegal.
With peace and consolation hath dismist, And calm of mind all passion spent...
Experienced Site Assistants - BAJR Host - 3rd June 2009
I spent some time in discussion over this one with HFA
including discussions about rates of pay and remunerations.
The trouble comes with this sudden contract .. (note the closing date) which has gone from 0-60 in a very short time. the HR department would require time to place people - hence the 'casual' nature' and also the real fact that they would want to pay people monthly, hence - Start work half way through June... no payment til end of August .............. this is a way of subverting that obviously unmanageable situation. The 3 months work - you could if you wish take holidays during that time... however at this time - I would take the money.
this was on the edge of what could be seen as acceptable, but long discussions allowed explanations to be made, suggestions offered and a suitable rate offered.
I have made an error in the G levels - the pay is at G3-4 the requirement for ability is G2-3
I understand peopels concerns, I too had them, and after calculations the actual final cash in the wallet payment meets the basic minimum. Otherwise I would not have run it.
I hope that goes at least part way to explain.
"Entrepreneurs are simply those who understand that there is little difference between obstacle and opportunity and are able to turn both to their advantage."
Niccolo Machiavelli
Experienced Site Assistants - Soils - 3rd June 2009
That is all well and good, but that does not detract from the fact that:
?Some employers and employment agencies may say that your hourly rate of pay includes an amount for holiday pay, and that they expect you to save this part of your pay to cover your holidays. This is known as 'rolled up' holiday pay. Rolled up holiday pay may be against the law unless your holiday pay is paid on top of your basic pay and it's clear what the amount of rolled up holiday pay is. For example, the amount of rolled up holiday pay should be clearly set out in your payslip.? (http://www.adviceguide.org.uk)
I am uncertain to as your thread as to whether the pay with or without the holiday pay rolled in, meets BAJR minimum?
Experienced Site Assistants - BAJR Host - 3rd June 2009
From what I have been told. It does - however, if you wish to talk to the HFA group about this, then please do not hesitate, it is sensible to check the terms and conditions prior to accepting any job.
This is an unusual one, given the circumstances of the project, and the attempt to ensure that people are paid - rather than having to wait until the end of August ( which would be the case otherwise)
Sometimes I find myself in a position where I must make a personal judgement - and in this case, given the discussions I had, and given I was approached in the first place - the sums make it 'as-if' you were employed. There is no implied trickery here. But please do call if you want to discuss
"Entrepreneurs are simply those who understand that there is little difference between obstacle and opportunity and are able to turn both to their advantage."
Niccolo Machiavelli
Experienced Site Assistants - BAJR Host - 3rd June 2009
An extra bit from HFA
The "holiday enhancement" payment is not in compensation for staff not being able to have holidays. Holidays should be at the time of choosing of the employee rather than the employer, which could of course mean that the employee might not wish to take holidays during a period of temporary employment, instead taking it when they want to, effectively taking their leave entitlement with them, when they are no longer working for that employer.
BAJR Host back:
They have to act within the law (being a council) if you feel that anything illegal is happening, then you will have to take it up with them. I am satisfied that no person will be 'worse off' and that minimum pay and conditions are being offered.
"Entrepreneurs are simply those who understand that there is little difference between obstacle and opportunity and are able to turn both to their advantage."
Niccolo Machiavelli
Experienced Site Assistants - monty - 4th June 2009
come on guys !!! it wouldn't be on BAJR if not legit.......and it is WORK !!!!!!!!
Experienced Site Assistants - chiz - 4th June 2009
Quote:quote:Originally posted by monty
come on guys !!! it wouldn't be on BAJR if not legit.......and it is WORK !!!!!!!!
sorry monty, but we have every right to query whether the advert is legitimate. And I do believe there have been occasions where adverts have been placed on BAJR and then removed following further scrutiny. David does an excellent job in screening adverts, and that is to the benefit of all of us directly and indirectly, however on jobs like this that clearly look odd and potentially dodgy it is best to have a debate about what the job exactly is. David is not an employment or tax lawyer and it is not his role or remit to scrutinise every detail of every advert. I do not agree with everything David says, or does, despite being pretty much 100% supportive of him. His decisions are there to be questioned and queried, and I believe he supports this wholeheartedly.
You frequently say that its work so must be good, but work at any price is no good for anyone. There are jobs advertised (not on here) offering ?60 a day self employed, its work, but not a decent wage and its work like that and the fact that people are willing/have to take it that keeps wages down across the board.
At a time when pay and conditions are being squeezed it is only right to query adverts that seem unusual in their wording. David has explained the situation and I'm fairly happy that the situation seems ok, it is after all, a council so must be fine. Good luck to those that apply.
Experienced Site Assistants - monty - 4th June 2009
well......... in the current climate any work has to be a good thing, and a lot of the progress on pay and conditions made in recent years already has and WILL go by the board as its a big bad world out there ....... there is work but it aint advertised on BAJR as Bob rightly says.....but people will do it as there really is no choice at the moment ..............