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+--- Thread: do I have muppet written on my forehead? (/showthread.php?tid=1959)
do I have muppet written on my forehead? - mercenary - 9th December 2005
The following was posted on Britarch in response to criticism of the IFA. It puts into perspective the situation in the UK rather well.
[I am a native Austrian, and worked there for much of my early years in the discipline. In Austria, there is nothing remotely like the IFA, and as such, there is no self-regulation of the discipline whatsoever. One result of this is, as you may remember from some mails on Britarch earlier this year, that one of our colleagues, Markus Koller, was killed on site about a year ago, when the trench he was working in collapsed. This event has had NO consequences whatsoever, as the police investigation ended finding that no one could be held responsible, based, at least mostly, on an expert opinion of one of my colleagues (who shall remain nameless) that general health and safety regulations could not be applied to archaeological excavations, and that no Austrian archaeologist had any idea whatsoever what could have been done to prevent this 'tragic accident' (which of course is as patently wrong as it is outrageous). Other than a conference which will be held next February in Salzburg, where health and safety on excavation will be discussed by, mainly, representatives of various archaeological institutions in Austria, that's it (I will be there and talk about the situation in the UK, btw.). And I fully expect that said conference will produce no tangible results whatsoever, either, as most of the participants will come up with the usual sad argument that health and safety cost more than we can afford, and that there is nothing that could keep a section from collapsing anyway (after all, many of the less internationally oriented of the Austrian archaeologists are still not using the stratigraphic method). And I know that since the accident, the same dangerous practices have continued at many an excavation. As a matter of fact, the 'collapsed' police investigation into the case of the death of Markus Koller now means that any excavation director can now send his staff down a 3 meter deep trench in loose gravel without taking any precautionary measures (and I have heard of at least 2 cases where this has already happened, apart from remembering pretty well that I myself worked down in such trenches in my early years). Here, an institution like the IFA, with whatever faults and weaknesses it may have, would come in very handy. It may not be as effective as we might wish, and may or may not expel or otherwise discipline people as frequently as some here might like, but it is definitely better than nothing. Put bluntly, if you don't like what the IFA does, try to change it from the inside, while you continue to ridicule it's shortcomings, both internally and in public. But sitting outside on your fence and complaining that 'they are not good enough' and 'who made them archaeological god anyway' is just cheap.]
We should consider ourselves lucky.
do I have muppet written on my forehead? - BAJR Host - 9th December 2005
Do I sense a Euro BAJR in the offing?? I am preparing a massive BAJR campaign in May (how socialist of me
) with card leaflets, A3 Posters etc and the launch of BAJR 2.0 web... WIth this comes an opportunity to raise awareness and support our fellow archaeologists in Europe. This shocking incident reported in the April Digger ARCHAEOLOGIST KILLED IN TRENCH COLLAPSE
Archaeologists around the world were shocked to hear about the death of Austrian Marcus Koller, 30. He was killed last month when the 2.5m deep unshored trench he was working in collapsed. Despite being injured themselves, two women colleagues - one of whom was his fiancee - were able to dig him out but he had suffocated. They were working on a Roman farm site for Salzburg museum.
and now the followup where practices have not changed and H&S is still regarded as secondary. There is much work to be done. Lets consolidate and both seek ties with Euro and American Groups as well as support change within the European Archaeology Field.
For example an archaeologist in Italy earns around 5-600 euros a month !! (about 400 quid) Archaeology has traditionally received little government funding in Italy despite a plethora of ancient sites. The Italian Culture Minister Valter Veltroni, made the announcement that foreign archaeological schools will be invited to take part in digs. robbers continue to loot ancient Italian tombs and insufficient attention has been paid to conserving existing sites.
So yes we are lucky... but only by making our own luck!
Another day another WSI?
do I have muppet written on my forehead? - i_love_rocks - 9th December 2005
I can only support what has been said in that email to Britarch. I myself have worked both in the UK and in Germany, and can confirm from my own experience that UK contract archaeologists are generally getting a better deal in Health and Safety and general work conditions.
Earlier this year I was working on a large-scale urban site in Germany, which had the most appauling H&S standards I have ever seen anywhere. The site was contaminated (Heating Fuel and Mercury) and staff was at first given no appropriate protection, mechanical excavators were swinging with full loads over the heads of archaeologists, access to the excavation area was over spoil heaps, site traffic was totally uncontrolled etc etc etc. I was present when we came across the first area contaminated with mercury and immediately evacuated all the other staff in that trench. It took hours for the developers environmental specialist to turn up and he at first had a good laugh at us, because he didn't believe that we had a contamination. Once he had a good look around the area and moved the spoil I had covered the mercury with he jumped out of the trench and asked his colleague to pass him his respirator! Next time I find something like that and the guys responsible can't be arsed to do something about it in good time I will call the firebrigade and let them deal with it and have the unit or developer pay for it.
I could go on for hours about that site. Only this week there was a major incident on site where one of the diggers was almost hit by a bit of steel falling from the top...(I don't work there any more, but I still get the news).
The major problem was that the majority of people doing the diggers job were totally inappropriate staff, many of them students and most of them not even enrolled in an archaeological degree.
Totally ridiculous. Compared to the quality of work and to the standards in H&S I have seen in the UK on the sites that I have worked on (I am sure there are exceptions and those should be followed up by the relevant authorities) it was an absolute shambles. Therefore, yes while the IFA may be not the best one would hope for in terms of helping on-site conditions all people working in the UK that something like this xists in the first place!
Anyway, rant over.
Any chance of extending BAJR across Europe???
do I have muppet written on my forehead? - 1man1desk - 9th December 2005
The Austrian experience quoted above gives me the shivers. I have seen similarly dangerous practice (although, thankfully, not results) in the UK, but not since the early 1980s and only on University-run research excavations. I have also seen almost exactly the same situation on a construction site, affecting construction workers (not archaeologists), and it did result in almost instant prosecution by the HSE and a large fine.
A point worth making is that this situation could not arise with impunity in Britain. H&S law here applies equally to all employers, and no archaeological unit here could successfully plead that they couldn't be expected to know how to work safely. So, the investigation that took place in Austria, if repeated in Britain, would almost certainly have resulted in a prosecution and a conviction. I had assumed that this would be the case throughout the EU - but apparently not!
In the light of the above, if I saw such dangerous practice here I would report it to the IFA - but only after reporting to the HSE, a much more powerful regulator with stronger sanctions at their disposal.
1man1desk
to let, fully furnished
do I have muppet written on my forehead? - i_love_rocks - 9th December 2005
About EU H&S regulations:
since EU regulations came into force hivi jackets and vests are a must on all sites in Germany as are hard-hats regardless of type of site, depth of excavation etc. (safety boots have always been).
But, in many cases that is just a 'visual' effect. Often nothing has changed in terms of the thought process underlying safety procedures on sites. Did I mention that the site I was talking about didn't have running water three months into the season, because the construction company couldn't be asked? This is with site staff of 15+ people at al times AND contaminated soil...
do I have muppet written on my forehead? - kevin wooldridge - 9th December 2005
Quote:quote:Originally posted by mercenary
The following was posted on Britarch in response to criticism of the IFA. It puts into perspective the situation in the UK rather well.
I am a native Austrian, and worked there for much of my early years in the discipline. In Austria, there is nothing remotely like the IFA, and as such, there is no self-regulation of the discipline whatsoever. One result of this is, as you may remember from some mails on Britarch earlier this year, that one of our colleagues, Markus Koller, was killed on site about a year ago, when the trench he was working in collapsed. This event has had NO consequences whatsoever, as the police investigation ended finding that no one could be held responsible, based, at least mostly, on an expert opinion of one of my colleagues (who shall remain nameless) that general health and safety regulations could not be applied to archaeological excavations, and that no Austrian archaeologist had any idea whatsoever what could have been done to prevent this 'tragic accident' (which of course is as patently wrong as it is outrageous). Other than a conference which will be held next February in Salzburg, where health and safety on excavation will be discussed by, mainly, representatives of various archaeological institutions in Austria, that's it (I will be there and talk about the situation in the UK, btw.). And I fully expect that said conference will produce no tangible results whatsoever, either, as most of the participants will come up with the usual sad argument that health and safety cost more than we can afford, and that there is nothing that could keep a section from collapsing anyway
This would appear to be an outrageous situation. It does however contain an error.
Austria as a full member of the European Union has signed up to virtually identical Health and Safety legislation to that applicable in the UK. Workers in Austria are protected under this legislation in the same way that UK workers are.
Council Directive 89/391/EEC of 12 June 1989 on the introduction of measures to encourage improvements in the safety and health of workers at work
In UK law the employer has a responsibility to make sure a working site is safe. The employees have a duty to act in a safe manner.The death of the archaeologist in Salzburg is to be regretted, but the correspondent is wrong to say that are no measures that could have been taken to protect this worker. The workers involved should not have been in that trench in those conditions. The employer had a duty under both European and Austrian law to ensure a safe working site.
I would hope that Austrian archaeological workers (supported by their trade unions) are seeking serious meetings with their employers to ensure that H&S legislation is being applied. This is not a matter to be raised at the arse-end of a conference, but fundamental to archaeological work across Europe. As UK archaeologists or archaeological companies could/can work anywhere in the EU, a serious breach of H&S conditions in any part of the EU is a concern we should all be sharing.
do I have muppet written on my forehead? - Post-Med Potterer - 9th December 2005
Something to be brought to the attention of the European Association of Archaeologists, perhaps?
Yes their conferences are often long-winded academic talking shops, but their aims include promoting 'proper ethical and scientific standards for archaeological work' and promoting 'the interests of professional archaeologists in Europe'.
They have had round tables on working practices.
Their website is here.
do I have muppet written on my forehead? - Post-Med Potterer - 9th December 2005
I have in fact now gone to the EAA website and looked at their Codes of Practice. There is also a PDF version.
This includes the following...
2.10 The management of all projects must respect national standards relating to conditions of employment and safety.
As Kevin Wooldridge points out, Austria as an EU country is bound by basically the same H&S rules and regs as we are*.
* For the 'ists' out there who always wondered why the laissez-faire right-wing conservative government brought in the most comprehensive policies for the protection and welfare of workers, the reason is that it was EU-wide and they had no choice. For vulpes this means you can cheer loudly about your (allegedly) favourite political party.
do I have muppet written on my forehead? - Gagumph - 9th December 2005
"I'm sure there was somebody killed in a trench collapse in Colchester(?) and another squished flat by grader on the Channel tunnel project both in the 90's." qoute by Tim in relation to archaeological fatalities.
Sorry to come back to this after such a long time (lost my password) but seems pertinent now given the above thread.Given that we are fairly clear what happened to [u]Austrian</u> archaeologist Marcus Koller, doesnt it seem strange that no-one has any real knowledge of the CTRL grader horror (even those of us that worked on the project for 10 years)
I think this should be put to bed before it becomes an urban (rural?) myth that old archaeologists like to frighten impressionable new starters with
do I have muppet written on my forehead? - Sith - 12th December 2005
Quote:quote:Originally posted by Gagumph
Sorry to come back to this after such a long time (lost my password) but seems pertinent now given the above thread.Given that we are fairly clear what happened to [u]Austrian</u> archaeologist Marcus Koller, doesnt it seem strange that no-one has any real knowledge of the CTRL grader horror (even those of us that worked on the project for 10 years)
I think this should be put to bed before it becomes an urban (rural?) myth that old archaeologists like to frighten impressionable new starters with
Sorry, but I thought that I had already made an attempt to put this to bed. Unless there is a whole ghost army of diggers out there that no one knows about, the only archaeologist killed during an excavation in Britain was Jeffrey Radley. He was killed in York in July 1970 when a trench in which he had been working collapsed. There is a plaque dedicated to him on the Anglian tower in the Museum Gardens.
http://www.yorkstories.co.uk/york_walks-1/images/29january2004/enlarged/anglian-tower-plaque_590px.jpg
He was a well respected and very experienced archaeologist who decided to go back in for that ?last look at the section?. Needless to say, his story has been used as an example to archaeologists ever since.
As I said last time I posted this information, if there were others, surely we?d all know about them.
D. Vader
Senior Consultant
Vader Maull & Palpatine
Archaeological Consultants
With our combined strength, we can end this destructive conflict and bring order to the IFA