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+--- Thread: standards for treatment of human remains abroad (/showthread.php?tid=2038)
standards for treatment of human remains abroad - sniper - 20th October 2005
after having requested, and received, the photos that troll said he had of poorly archived human remains from a European university excavation abroad, I have to say that I am outraged and disgusted. No collections of artefacts, and particularly human remains, should be treated in this way no matter where they were excavated and stored, and by whom.
We are lucky in this country that there does seem to be a change in attitude over the last 20 years towards the treatment of human remains, but this does not seem to be the case for excavations conducted abroad, whether by British universities or those from other countries. What can we do to change attitudes? What can we do to encourage the implementation of Europe (and world) wide ethics and standards of care for human remains? Gimme your views, whether you're a body person or not, I would love to hear what you all think.
++ i spend my days rummaging around in dead people ++
standards for treatment of human remains abroad - Curator Kid - 21st October 2005
As a slightly expanded response (ie not just referring to Human remains), I'd like to see us get our own house properly in order first. Europe has a convention on Archaeology, that we're supposed to have signed up to. However, until the Government properly supports it, it's going to be difficult to ask others to do the same. This recent Government response to a question on this matter suggests that we're sadly a fair way off yet. http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2005-10-18b.16347.h
standards for treatment of human remains abroad - troll - 21st October 2005
Thanx for the link CK and-the important prompt Snipey. I had`nt visited this link before-apparently, all is well. Before I start ranting about Watt Tyler and Guido Fawkes, I should start by stating quite simply that the Honourable Gentleman is deliberately misleading. Absolute garbage. Rightyho, I think that this re-emphasises the need for us to write to our overpayed honesty-hiders with urgency. Snipey-absolutely right on all counts. Lets start by exposing the Government of this little banana republic first..........
Tell you what, if we all got onto this link and made our views known in no uncertain terms.....get involved peeps-this looks good.Thankyou CK.
standards for treatment of human remains abroad - troll - 21st October 2005
To stick to Snipey`s thread...
I find it incredulous that universities working abroad seem to view Human remains as a negligable artefact category and seem blissfully unaware of just how much such studies can enhance research designs and pose new and largely unpredicted questions. There does seem to be something of a cultural/political element to the varied ethical stance on Human remains abroad-just how we begin to approach this is an interesting question in itself. I would argue (and I think this may be the main thrust of Snipey`s point) that as European archaeologists, we already have standards and guidelines in place and when working abroad-we should have no excuse for abandoning our codes of practise simply because the host nation allows for it. Quite the contrary, without arrogance/imperialism/malice or ill-will, surely we should be encouraging the adoption of ethical treatment of Human remains abroad through example. Political/cultural dimensions aside-surely, by demonstrating the research potential of osteo studies within an archaeological/anthropological framework-would`nt ethical/professional standards follow as a logical progression? I`ve seen some hideous practises/assumptions relating to the treatment/storage of skeletal remains abroad and so far, without exception, those responsible have been European and non-European universities indulging in their jollies.Anyone from the British Association of Bioanthropology and Osteoarchaeology care to join our dialogue here? EAA members? INFORCE? There are oodles of forensic and osteo types out there with much more to offer than little old me on this issue....what do you think?
standards for treatment of human remains abroad - Tim - 21st October 2005
Wait till the "Bolkenstein Directive" or it's equivalent rears it's head again and liberalised service provision is introduced throughout the EU. It was only removed from the European Constitution so the French and Dutch would vote Yes. The didn't. The British think it didn't go far enough (they were supported by many of the ex Soviet bloc nations).
Will this mean that for (hypothetical) example Latvian archaeological organisations will be able to apply for contracts in the UK and vice versa. Are nations going to ring fence their Heritage industries ? or will there be some sort of Trans European EU standard work practise
Little Tim
standards for treatment of human remains abroad - the invisible man - 21st October 2005
I would have thought that it is already illegal to restrict tenders for any sort of contract i.e. the contract should be open to any firm in an EU country to tendef for. This is certainly the case in construction, where a contract over a certain value (forgotten what it is) has to be badvertised in the European Journal. This may only apply to LA contracts, can't remember, don't do that old tosh any more.But it's weird because building contractors must be on an LA's approved list to be allowed to tender, and they usually get invited to tender on some sort of rota basis.
Today, Bradford. Tomorrow, well, Bradford probably.
standards for treatment of human remains abroad - troll - 22nd October 2005
Where`s Boney and all the other osteos?
standards for treatment of human remains abroad - sniper - 22nd October 2005
sorry guys, just recovering from a nasty cold and am still coughing like a 90 year old chain smoker. will only worry when I start to grow a beak and feathers. to follow on from what troll said about leading the way and setting an example...I have seen the odd person present papers at conferences about the need for a change in attitudes to human remains in certain countries and the potential for enhancement of research aims, but they always seem to be lone voices and nothing changes. I have to say this is probably because they are not preaching to the converted, but to those who hold old fashioned but deeply embedded attitudes. I think the way to go would be to try and show the heritage communities who have no culture of human remains studies what can be done with such material. As they have no culture of such studies, they are also not likely to have attitudes that they are unwilling to change. From what little work I have done in other countries, the staff have been amazed and excited by what I could do with human remains. This excitement needs to be translated into some solid projects involving human remains
++ i spend my days rummaging around in dead people ++
standards for treatment of human remains abroad - troll - 22nd October 2005
Thanks for that. As we said earlier, we are hoping to encourage more participation on this thread in particular by those specialised in the field in question. BAJR is lucky in the sense that we are regularly visited by specialists of many flavours-without them, we would be much poorer.How do we change the current ethos regarding treatment of Human remains particularly in respect to Universities working abroad?
standards for treatment of human remains abroad - BAJR Host - 23rd October 2005
Sad to say... but on a recent (no names etc) trip abroad I saw two excavations of human remains that fell well short. From one where the skellys were uncoved only when the workmens mattocks cut through the frontal bones of the skull... (lots of info lost in one slice!) to no real understanding of how to even excavte a skelly.. (simple things like leaving hands and feet to last etc) I felt I was watching 1930s archaeology... but then realised that these students would be returning home believing they knew how to dig skellys. They got bored when I gave them a field lecture on how to dig grave cuts and how to recognise and excavate multiple skellys... sigh! [xx(]
Another site had students excavating a site with no skeletal maaterial at all... (the Prof in charge quotes... "yes the sand conditions have disolved the bones" are you mad?? there are chicken bones and goat bones there... are they made of tungstan steel?? ) - on an aside he also excated a site by polaroid... with workmen bringing him piccies every month.. (well the site was over 10km away!)
Standards are slack .... something I would not expect from UK teams. Worse if they return to the UK and practice the same sloppy activity here. From the start there is a right way... there is even a document detailing how to do it for **** sake.. Only when the Unis are brought into line with excavations will this change.....
RANT MODE OFF ............. bzzzzzzzzz
Another day another WSI?