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+--- Thread: Thornborough "debate" (/showthread.php?tid=2060)
Thornborough "debate" - Venutius - 11th February 2006
Cable viewers and those in the north of England will be interested to
know that the Thornborough Henges will be featured on TV this weekend.
The programme is called 'Seven Manmade Wonders of Yorkshire' & is on
BBC1 at 6:15pm this Sunday.
Paul Hudson who's the presenter of the programme, - " for me, the most
impressive of these 7 Yorkshire wonders was Thornborough Henges, which
I found more spectacular than Stonehenge"
Save the Thornborough Henge Complex - http://www.timewatch.org
Thornborough "debate" - BAJR Host - 11th February 2006
Quite a document... but better that than a rushed and small one. There is a lot to understand...
here is a link for anyone
http://www.northyorks.gov.uk/files/NYCC/Environment/Heritage/Thornborough%20henges%20-%201030/ThornboroughHengesConsPlanLR_v3.pdf
Interesting quotes can be found
p83 (or 57)
Quote:quote:5.19 In summary, the Central Henge has suffered considerable disturbance in the past and this has led to a degradation of it physical form and disturbed archaeological deposits within and around the Henge. The current land management regime represents an mprovement over past uses and the continuation of a stable, on-ground disturbing land-use would be beneficial to the conservation of the Henge and any archaeological remains in the area around it. The key issue for the future is likely to be the management of visitors should the current access situation change.
p86 (or 60)
Quote:quote:Work by both Dr. Jan Harding and Mike Griffiths Associates has
identified that ploughing has degraded known archaeological remains. This isnotable in the Plan Area at sites such as the Three Barrows Hill complex (CP9, 10, 11 and 32) where the visible remains of the barrows have now been ploughed out. Work by Dr. Jan Harding at the nearby Double Ditched Barrow (see Section 2 and Appendix 6) indicated that ploughing here had substantially degraded the below ground archaeological remains.
all in all a fair and unbiased report.. although it look long, much of it is lists and appendices... the main meat is the statement of significance, the threat to archaeology from ploughing (which can't be ignored) and access. Tourism can be seen as a significant activity if conducted properly.
I could not find the maps though that show the area..
Another day another WSI?
Thornborough "debate" - archae_logical - 11th February 2006
Quote:quote:Originally posted by BAJR Host
Quote:quote:Work by both Dr. Jan Harding and Mike Griffiths Associates has identified that ploughing has degraded known archaeological remains.all in all a fair and unbiased report.. the main meat is the statement of significance, the threat to archaeology from ploughing (which can't be ignored) and access. Tourism can be seen as a significant activity if conducted properly.
Another day another WSI?
Try reading Dr Jan Hardings objection letter where he says that further ploughing, unless deliberately ploughed deeper, should cause little further damage.
When you know the character of the landowners involved with Thornborough things aren't always what they seem. I dread to think what one particular landowner is dreaming up - Thornborough Disney Theme Park perhaps!!! He's already turned a Roman Villa site into a theme park.
E
Thornborough "debate" - BAJR Host - 11th February 2006
Thanks for that...
what I was trying to say is the recognition that ploughing is damaging the archaeology... what comes next is the 'will' to actually do something about it. Long term preservation rather than preservation by record.
Another day another WSI?
Thornborough "debate" - historic building - 13th February 2006
Well the area covered by the conservation plan has been considerably reduced since the work for it went out to tender probably about this time last year. I wonder what led to this?
Thornborough "debate" - archaeophobe - 13th February 2006
David - re: your comment "I could not find the maps though that show the area." these can be found on pages 11 and 12 of the PDF link you kindly posted. The other figures are also in the document
Hope this helps
Thornborough "debate" - BAJR Host - 13th February 2006
Thanks for that.... teach me to skim!!
Another day another WSI?
Thornborough "debate" - Venutius - 14th February 2006
Hi all,
Just a quick one.
The Council planning officers report has been published in anticipation of the planning meeting next week.
There's a couple of important bits:
"Recomendation
It is recommended that the application BE REFUSED for the following reasons:-
> The proposal is contrary to policy 4/8 of the North Yorkshire Mineral Local Plan as it would have an unnacceptable adverse impact on nationally important archaeological remains.
> The proposal is contrary to Policies 3/2, 3/3 and 3/4 of the North Yorkshire Minerals Local Plan in that the site is neither a Preferred Area or Area of Search nor does it constitute a small scale extension by virtue of its geographical extent and scale in relation to the existing quarry working, mineral quality and annual production."
Perhaps importantly, rather than simply defer the decision regarding the importance of the archaeology to English Heritage, which happened last time the report includes a lengthy assessment of the archaeology and concludes:
"It is our view therefore that this application to extract gravel from the Ladybridge Farm site will have an adverse impact on nationally important archaeological remains and be contrary to Mineral Plan Policy 4/8."
Save the Thornborough Henge Complex - http://www.timewatch.org
Thornborough "debate" - Venutius - 15th February 2006
Ancient site looks safe from quarry diggers - Yorkshire Post
English Heritage wants 'Stonehenge of the North' preserved after claiming it is of archaeological importance
Brian Dooks
CONTROVERSIAL plans for sand and gravel quarrying near Thornborough Henges in North Yorkshire look set to founder as new research offers further evidence the ancient monument was aligned with the stars.
Councillors have been urged to turn down an application to quarry 112 acres of land on a site just over half a mile away from the henges at Ladybridge Farm, near Masham, amid claims they are of national importance.
Last year councillors deferred a decision on plans by Tarmac Northern to extract a further 2.2 million tonnes of minerals by extending the existing Nosterfield Quarry after English Heritage claimed that archaeological investigation of the site had been insufficient.
Further archaeological work has taken place which has confirmed that features from the Neolithic or Bronze Age period are confined to an area of slightly higher land in the south west part of the site.
The consultant archaeologists concluded that the findings did not meet "thresholds for national importance" and said they had limited potential and had been heavily compromised by farm ploughing.
But English Heritage takes a different view. It says that the report identified a clear relationship between prehistoric activity on Ladybridge Farm and a wider area it refers to as Thornborough Moor ? including the henges, which have been hailed by some as the "Stonehenge of the North".
English Heritage's letter to the county council stresses that the archaeological work, including the latest assessment, has identified a "swathe of nationally-important early prehistoric archaeology and activity" from the Nosterfield site into Ladybridge farm.
Its experts say that the Tarmac application "will have a clear and negative impact on nationally important archaeology". English Heritage wants the remains "preserved in situ".
Tarmac's specialist, Mike Griffiths, a former North Yorkshire County Archaeologist, has argued that they could be recorded prior to extraction of the sand and gravel within an agreed framework.
Informally, English Heritage recognised that the preservation of nationally-important remains through some form of legal agreement might be acceptable, but North Yorkshire County Council's environmental services director Mike Moore said said it had questioned how this might be done given the difference in approach between it and the applicant's archaeological consultants.
Quarrying is opposed by the Council for British Archaeology, the Yorkshire Archaeological Society and two action groups, the Friends of Thornborough Henges and Timewatch. Over 1,000 letters of objection and a petition signed by 9,680 people have been received. Eighty letters of support have been sent in by supporters of the quarry's 15 employees and 40 hauliers.
Mr Moore recommends Tuesday's planning committee refuses permission because the quarry would have an unacceptable impact.
Tarmac's estates manager Bob Nicholson said: "Our consultants and North Yorkshire County Council carried out separate assessments of the Ladybridge artefacts and agreed they were not of national importance."
English Heritage had pulled out of the assessment and failed to give evidence-based reasons backing its assertion that the archaeology was important.
brian.dooks@ypn.co.uk
Comment: Page 12.
Neolithic peoples looked to the stars
research examining the origins of Thornborough Henges has confirmed the Neolithic people who built the monument 5,000 years ago were astronomers.
Archaeologists have long known that early man's beliefs were heavily influenced by celestial bodies like the sun, which was the centrepiece of Stonehenge.
But experts believe the Thornborough site was deliberately orientated on the constellation of Orion and engineered to leave people feeling they were at the centre of the cosmos.
Jan Harding, senior lecturer in archaeology at Newcastle University, said there was evidence to believe that the sky was fundamental to the Neolithic way of life.
His colleague Glyn Goodrick, of the Museum of Antiquities at Newcastle University, has created a three-dimensional virtual reality model.
Over this was draped computer-generated images of the sky as it would have appeared in Neolithic times. The result is a virtual world in which it is possible to position yourself to consider the reconstructed view of the henges and the sky.
Dr Harding said the study provided insights into Neolithic religion and what it regarded as important.
"The same objects in the sky are being picked out as important for a period of around 1,500 years."
One of the earliest monuments, a giant elongated enclosure, about half of which has been destroyed by quarrying, was most likely built between 3,500BC and 3,000BC. This appears to have been deliberately orientated towards the midsummer solstice sunrise, to the east, and towards the setting of the three stars which make up the constellation of Orion's Belt, to the west.
This early monument was replaced after 3,000BC by the three circular earth enclosures or henges. All three henges are broken by a pair of entrances, all on a shared axis and aligned on the midwinter solstice sunrise. The entrances frame the rising of the star Sirius and the associated constellation of Orion's Belt.
Dr Harding explains: "Thornborough was a sacred landscape, a place of religious worship, and we should try to interpret these astronomical orientations within that context."
15 February 2006
http://www.yorkshiretoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=55&ArticleID=1351443
Save the Thornborough Henge Complex - http://www.timewatch.org
Thornborough "debate" - Venutius - 15th February 2006
Yorkshire Post opinion - History's Henges.
A site yet to reveal its secrets.
They have been called the Stonehenge of the North. Yet until it was proposed to extend the nearby quarry, comparatively few were aware of the existence, let alone the significance of the Thornborough Henges.
Perhaps this is why Tarmac Northern Ltd believed that its plan to extract sand and gravel from land bordering the henges, near Masham, would be uncontroversial.
However, the firm reckoned without the vociferous opposition of local groups which resulted in a series of surveys, raising the henges' profile and adding considerably to knowledge of this Neolithic monument.
Crucially, the verdict of such respected bodies as English Heritage conflicts dramatically with that of consultants employed by Tarmac. Far from failing to reach "thresholds of national importance", as the consultant archaeologists claim, Thornborough represents "a swathe of nationally important early prehistoric archaeology and activity", according to English Heritage.
With such a wide variance of opinion as to the site's importance, it would be foolhardy in the extreme to conclude that quarrying should be extended. This is why North Yorkshire County Council is wisely recommending rejection of the proposal.
Thornborough may not be as dramatic as Stonehenge. But the latest evidence that it, too, is linked to observation of the cosmos suggests that, like Stonehenge, it has yet to surrender the full secrets of its significance.
Save the Thornborough Henge Complex - http://www.timewatch.org