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IfA reply to Diggers Forum statement on JIS - Printable Version +- BAJR Federation Archaeology (http://www.bajrfed.co.uk) +-- Forum: BAJR Federation Forums (http://www.bajrfed.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?fid=3) +--- Forum: The Site Hut (http://www.bajrfed.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?fid=7) +--- Thread: IfA reply to Diggers Forum statement on JIS (/showthread.php?tid=2717) |
IfA reply to Diggers Forum statement on JIS - BAJR Host - 17th February 2010 Diggers Forum Statement: Quote: As DF members will be aware, the IfA Jobs Information Service (JIS) is one of the two main jobsites where archaeologists look for job vacancies in the UK. The IfA JIS also lists heritage and related jobs including National Trust vacancies and some university courses and post-grad places. It is provided as a free membership benefit to IfA members, and as a paid service to non-members. The IfA JIS is one of the most visible faces of the IfA to the wider profession and aspirant archaeologists and we strongly believe that all archaeological jobs advertised in the IfA JIS should comply with IfA regulations -including meeting or exceeding IfA minima where relevant. Response from Kate Geary on behalf of the IfA Quote: Response from Kate Geary (IfA Training and Standards Manager) to Geoff Morley (IfA Council and Diggers? Forum ? IfA special interest group) in relation to comments emailed by the Diggers? Forum to its group membership (29/01/2010) regarding the IfA Jobs Information Service Bulletin (JIS). IfA reply to Diggers Forum statement on JIS - MarionRavenwood - 18th February 2010 Passing the buck...if there was even a buck to pass. IfA reply to Diggers Forum statement on JIS - destroyingangel - 18th February 2010 As someone who is on the verge of having to find yet another job (whatever and wherever it may have to be), I have one little axe to grind with the IFA JIS service. The fact that, if you are not a member of the IFA (for whatever reason), you have to pay them to get the leaflet (?20 for two months). Now I know that doesn't sound too much in the whole scheme of things... but at the moment ?20 is a pretty big ?20 that could be spent on food, heating and/or rent. Thank heavens for BAJR! :face-approve: IfA reply to Diggers Forum statement on JIS - Oxbeast - 18th February 2010 See this page for some of the more comedy jobs in the IFA jobs bulletin, which presumably passed the rigourous checking process described above: http://www.bajrfed.co.uk/showthread.php?1080-IFA-Minimum-Salaries-a-consultation/page2 The issue is not so much "is this post PIFA or AIFA", but "why is this post so far below the PIFA mimimum?" The final part of the statement above implies that mimimum salary requirements only applies to ROs placing adverts with the JIS, rather than ads pulled together from different sources. I for one think that the idea of having standards is undermined if you also facilitate people's avoiding them. How much did the job dressing up as Henry the 8th pay? You did need to be able to grow a beard for that one... IfA reply to Diggers Forum statement on JIS - BAJR - 18th February 2010 I waited unitl this evening to voice my own opinions on this one... and am glad to see that I am not alone in the general... er.. ah... pardon!!! Oxbeast does indeed bring up some crackers... from the past. I noticed today that the JIS was not too bad... (yes there is an online version available if you know where to look) there are few jobs that would not be allowed on the BAJR website. though the past few editions have had ones that would not make it... and a recent discussion highlighted that they were unsure about whether a job was PiFa or not for non RO jobs that they are happy to display Don't worry - I did tell them - however it is up to them as a commercial enterprise to decide, There are several things in the reply that I take issue with. BAJR has always been seen as a 'commercial enterprise' and thus.. 'it is up to me who I allow advertise' However.. and this is funny coming up now given my recent postings about teh JIS - and the IfA upset. Correct me if I am wrong... the JIS accepts paid adverts... so is there a responsibility? As Oxbeast says.. does the checking only apply to RO jobs.... the rest are fine? As destroyingangel says... the information is sold to non-ifa (again a commercial enterprise) I looked at teh IfA accounts and they turn over source http://www.archaeologists.net/modules/icontent/inPages/docs/ta/ta69.pdf JIS earned ?12,211 from revenue. admittedly from a ?904,215 turnover which is down from over 16 grand a couple of years ago.. but still... 12 grand is 12 grand... what responsibility does this pay for? if I had a million quid a year... blimey... i can only imagine what i could do. and the ifa do do things... I would dearly like to see the IfA explain a few things Can you promote good practice and decent pay with ROs but allow non ROs to advertise jobs that have issues Can you pass the buck of responsibility by saying... well we just let people know... its up to them to decide. Is it the 'job' of the ifa to deal with this... they are not a union they are not an employers group I was under the impression that the iFa was to do with standards and guidance.. professionalism.. etc.. I am definitely behind that... When you see an advert on BAJR you know it means (and yes I make mistakes... but sort them as soon as it is pointed out - and talk with employers to help make it right) that it is within the IfA and BAJR minima -- Yes BAJR survives on advert revenue... but I take responsibility for them.. I would ask teh IfA to join with me and stop advertising sub 15k jobs.. to agree that if the benchmark is to be seen as a real concept... it needs to address this last bastion of sub 15k jobs. I support the ideal of the IfA - these ideals have to be seen in the JIS as well. IfA reply to Diggers Forum statement on JIS - Kathryn Whittington - 19th February 2010 destroyingangel Wrote:As someone who is on the verge of having to find yet another job (whatever and wherever it may have to be), I have one little axe to grind with the IFA JIS service. The fact that, if you are not a member of the IFA (for whatever reason), you have to pay them to get the leaflet (?20 for two months). Now I know that doesn't sound too much in the whole scheme of things... but at the moment ?20 is a pretty big ?20 that could be spent on food, heating and/or rent. The JIS is offered as a service to IfA members. The purpose of it is the pull together advertisements for jobs, courses and studentships that are advertised in a variety of places (as well as the inclusion of adverts that are placed directly with the IfA) into one jobsheet that our members can subscribe to for free. The aim is that we do the legwork of looking through all of the various publications that heritage and heritage-related jobs appear in, so that our members don’t have to. Like all of our membership benefits, and like the membership benefits of all membership organisations, you need to be a member to benefit from them for free. We do however offer it to non-members for a subscription, non members need to pay to subscribe to it because it is a membership benefit, and they are not members. Quote:Correct me if I am wrong... the JIS accepts paid adverts... so is there a responsibility? As Kate has explained in her the statement above, we do check adverts which are placed with us. We expect people who advertise with us directly, and our ROs to adhere to our pay minima. However as Kate has also explained there can be some grey areas, and breaking the link with local government pay scales means that our pay minima can be above what government departments are able to pay their employees, and this obviously causes problems. The IfA is a not-for-profit organisation, not a commercial interprise. The Institute gains a small income from the JIS, but like all of our income, this is ploughed back into the Institute to fund the its activities. IfA reply to Diggers Forum statement on JIS - BAJR - 19th February 2010 I thank you for that reply... however it still does not deal with the fundamental question of a) not taking responsibility for adverts that are not paid for b) not taking responsibility for non-RO adverts. This surely undermines the principal that ROs could indeed find adverts on the JIS that are below their requirements (as ROs) simply because they are collected from various sources. such as jobs.ac.uk and the guardian.jobs ( remembering that reselling information from some sources requires permission from the advertisers) For example ... if this group were an RO would they be allowed... The Gordon Highlanders Museum, Aberdeen: Education & Outreach Officer (? not specified, p/t, 30 hpw with a view to extending to f/t). was this checked first to ensure the pay was acceptable? Visitor Reception Assistant National Trust (weekends) CO Heelis (?13,297-?14,470 p/r, p/t, Is that a job that IfA accredited professionals want? I suppose it is up to them would be the answer.? or this advert (which did not appear in BAJR) Essex CC, Braintree: Temporary ?As & When? Project Assistants (Band 2-3, according to an advisor at the council this equates to ?14,587-?16,278/?16,663-?21,306, Ref. WE-EC03488) as you say... there can be grey area... and so I (like you ) always call up and ensure all is well - these adverts often get the words BAJR approved, to show that I have checked this advert... something that JIS could consider - as it promotes good practice and shows commitment. I could go on with hundreds of jobs over the years. etc The trouble comes when just gathering from various sources... you end up with no responsibility or control of content... other than ones that you receive directly and are paid for. (Correct me if I am wrong - perhaps you do call up and check whether non paying adverts are acceptable) I long ago removed Guardain Ads and Jobs.ac.uk ads from BAJR (brought in via their rss feeds and linking directly to their websites as required) as I had no control over content, so jobs could appear on BAJR that would not meet my criteria. I realise that the IfA are a non profit making group - however you can't get away from the fact that you are charging for adverts and also selling the JIS to non IfA both commercial and revenue building activities. We should not get away from the core of the DF argument They say that the IfA - if it is to promote pay and conditions - must ensure that all its activities promote this ideal, and understand that you can't promote with one hand... but allow lesser conditions with the other. |