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+--- Thread: Movement on the living wage? (/showthread.php?tid=462)
Movement on the living wage? - BAJR Host - 19th April 2007
Have to confess.. I knew that this may ahppen, but like you have not seen anything, have not been asked to comment, and would love to see this.. :face-huh::face-huh:
"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu
Movement on the living wage? - beamo - 19th April 2007
Oops - my mistake - must have dreamt the bit about curators and standards - sorry to have got everyone excited.
HB - I do agree with you that (nearly) everyone is doing a decent job within a system that has obvious and quite worrying flaws. What I cannot see is a clear argument that sets out how consultants can improve the overall pay levels rather than just the standards.
'I might add that I don't really see legal action occurring unless precipitated by the dissatisfaction of the curator/council. If a contractor doesn't really comply with the brief, but the consent is granted regardless, would the client or the consultant really waste time and money trying to sue the contractor into doing more?'
It might not be worth suing the contractor to do more, especially if the work has actually been signed off, but it could be worth not paying them the full amount if it can be shown that they have not actually done what they were contracted to do - the client pays out less money but has no delays on site, whilst the contractor learns a harsh lesson and hopefully will read the brief better next time.
Beamo
Movement on the living wage? - vulpes - 19th April 2007
Quote:quote:Now that the IFA (along with ALGAO) has managed to produce a Standard and Guidance document for archaeological curators, perhaps we could look for one that is specifically for archaeological consultants.
It is in the pipeline I believe and will be an S&G for Stewardship of the Historic Environment. Can't find a reference for this though - but it has been a long time coming. Probably due to the difficulties of getting curators to collectively agree on anything.}
Movement on the living wage? - Tile man - 20th April 2007
Information on the Stewardship S&G can be found here
http://www.britarch.ac.uk/conserve/stewardship/
Movement on the living wage? - putt1ck - 20th April 2007
Quote:quote:Originally posted by beamo
BTW - Putt1ck - is there really such a thing as a chartered personnel manager, and do they have enforced standards for entry to the profession - I guess I must have just met the (non-chartered) inept ones.
Oh so very slightly OT, but yes, personnel management is a controlled profession, although it is worth noting that not all personnel departments contain 100% qualified staff (and sometimes nearer 0%...). See http://www.cipd.co.uk/default.cipd for more information.
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Strictly my views, which occasionally may also be those of my employer!
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Movement on the living wage? - beamo - 20th April 2007
'Information on the Stewardship S&G can be found here
http://www.britarch.ac.uk/conserve/stewardship/'
Phew - I thought that I had lost a few more marbles than is actually the case.
Beamo
Movement on the living wage? - 1man1desk - 20th April 2007
There is one thing that consultants can do that could influence wages.
We operate a system whereby we only invite tenders from RAOs, unless there is a very good reason to include someone else (e.g. too few RAOs in the region, or particular specialist expertise required). Excluding non-RAOs from most tenders means that organisations who pay less than the IFA minima are excluded (assuming that all the RAOs are following the rules).
We have also sometimes used a 'pre-qualification' questionnaire, intended to ensure that any unit that wants to get on to the tender list has to meet certain quality criteria first. The qualifying criteria include full compliance with all IFA rules, including those on pay, even if the unit is not an RAO.
1man1desk
to let, fully furnished
Movement on the living wage? - beamo - 20th April 2007
This is a good starting position, and we also operate this type of policy, but will it enable us consultants to then progress towards movement on the living or dignity wage, which is seeking the recommended IFA minima plus a bit more ?
Beamo
Movement on the living wage? - BAJR Host - 20th April 2007
Quote:quote:We have also sometimes used a 'pre-qualification' questionnaire, intended to ensure that any unit that wants to get on to the tender list has to meet certain quality criteria first. The qualifying criteria include full compliance with all IFA rules, including those on pay, even if the unit is not an RAO.
Thats the one I like...
"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu
Movement on the living wage? - hurting-back - 20th April 2007
Quote:quote:Originally posted by beamo
Oops - my mistake - must have dreamt the bit about curators and standards - sorry to have got everyone excited.
HB - I do agree with you that (nearly) everyone is doing a decent job within a system that has obvious and quite worrying flaws. What I cannot see is a clear argument that sets out how consultants can improve the overall pay levels rather than just the standards.
'I might add that I don't really see legal action occurring unless precipitated by the dissatisfaction of the curator/council. If a contractor doesn't really comply with the brief, but the consent is granted regardless, would the client or the consultant really waste time and money trying to sue the contractor into doing more?'
It might not be worth suing the contractor to do more, especially if the work has actually been signed off, but it could be worth not paying them the full amount if it can be shown that they have not actually done what they were contracted to do - the client pays out less money but has no delays on site, whilst the contractor learns a harsh lesson and hopefully will read the brief better next time.
Beamo
It's OK, you won't see an argument about what consultants can do because I was focusing on curators.....sorry if this was not made clear!
Also, I agree that it would be nice to dock the pay of contractors who do not complete all works and I can see a client trying this on...but they would have a hard time proving this without alerting the curator in the process as any contractor would simply say "well, you got your condition discharged didn't you?". But again, this is a bit of a sideline....
1man - I like your pre-qual idea, but I have done many of these and I can assure you there is no quicker way to accrue bad karma than to send those out!!! [:p]
More seriously though, I think that such an approach would help...but how to institute it widely enough? We are also back to how to ensure that questionnaires are consistent across different organisations and who is going to enforce this (contractor compliance that is), as the consultant, however well meaning, is not in a neutral position in all of this?
While councils are by no means neutral bystanders, curators do not have a direct financial stake in projects and are less likely to be compromised when making these types of decisions....which brings me back to my arguments about the potentially crucial role of curators could play if they had better resources, which I won't repeat as I have already gone over this at great (rambling) length.
don't panic!