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+--- Forum: The Site Hut (http://www.bajrfed.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?fid=7)
+--- Thread: Please let something controversial break... (/showthread.php?tid=797)
Please let something controversial break... - gumbo - 17th January 2008
Or im going to have to do some work tomorrow
Please let something controversial break... - garybrun - 17th January 2008
Im sure that can be fixed
Website for responsible Metal Detecting
http://www.ukdfd.co.uk
Recording Our Heritage For Future Generations.
Please let something controversial break... - BAJR Host - 18th January 2008
You never know... lets open the bumper BAJR book of controversial subjects and potential libel...
Hmmmm now lets see... which one... which one
"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu
Please let something controversial break... - Tim - 18th January 2008
Does that include the faked degrees, nepotism, looting, selling of looted artefacts, fraudelent publications, rape and murder carried out by certain archaeologists!!
"Freedom of ideas is one thing, freedom of the purse is quite another". Edward Harris
Please let something controversial break... - gorilla - 18th January 2008
I don't think I like archaeology anymore... is that controversial?
Please let something controversial break... - Sith - 18th January 2008
Quote:quote:Originally posted by Tim
Does that include the faked degrees, nepotism, looting, selling of looted artefacts, fraudelent publications, rape and murder carried out by certain archaeologists!!
I'm not certain which archaeologist you mean. Have you been talking to U*it Of O*e again?
[:p]
D. Vader
Senior Consultant
Vader Maull & Palpatine
Archaeological Consultants
Don't make me destroy you, Curator
Please let something controversial break... - garybrun - 18th January 2008
Quote:quote:Originally posted by garybrun
Quote:quote:Originally posted by TimIt sound a very exciting profession [:o)]
Does that include the faked degrees, nepotism, looting, selling of looted artefacts, fraudelent publications, rape and murder carried out by certain archaeologists!!
"Freedom of ideas is one thing, freedom of the purse is quite another". Edward Harris
Who said archaeology is dull and boring???
Website for responsible Metal Detecting
http://www.ukdfd.co.uk
Recording Our Heritage For Future Generations.
Website for responsible Metal Detecting
http://www.ukdfd.co.uk
Recording Our Heritage For Future Generations.
Please let something controversial break... - BAJR Host - 18th January 2008
Tell you what... as long as you lot are in it... it certainly won't be dull and boring!
"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu
Please let something controversial break... - gumbo - 18th January 2008
I didnt do any work today anyway, but thanks for the efforts everyone! Have a anonymous and uncontroversial weekend y'all. G
Please let something controversial break... - gorilla - 19th January 2008
Ah⦠something controversial? Iâve been an avid reader of the BAJR âNew and Improved Site Hutâ postings for years, but without contributing that much. Iâve seen the arguments and discussions come and go. Likewise, Iâve seen the people come and go (and come back again). Looking at the messages, it is both funny and horrifying at the same time.
I donât particularly want to get on the bandwagon of âarchaeologist versus metal detectoristâ⦠its contentious and⦠yes⦠tedious. It will go on and on and on, irrespective of how our âprofessionâ (archaeology) and their âhobbyâ (detecting) evolves. Some people are just stuck in their ways⦠never the twain will meet. My personal view is that metal detectorists are here to stay⦠whether responsible, illegal or otherwise. Iâd rather have a detectorist who at least contributes to the archaeological record, than have a âIâm in it for the moneyâ treasure hunter. Furthermore, Iâd rather have someone who is an amateur, yet enthusiastic archaeologist, than a jaded and professionally blinkered bigot. Quite a few professional here have castigated Gary Brun for his interest (actually itâs a specialism). But at least he is here, and I applaud him for that. In trying to expound the concept (practice) of âresponsible detectingâ at the very least he is saying âI recordâ and, furthermore, âIâm really on your sideâ. At least he is trying to talk to usâ¦. but a lot of the time, I feel it is falling on deaf ears.
Moreover, I applaud him for his enthusiasm for archaeology⦠something I think we on the whole are losing (or for a few, have already lost). I canât remember the last time I heard a professional, field archaeologist say, âWow, look what Iâve found!â. When was the last time anyone here (contractor, curator, consultant⦠whoever) actually had a sense of wonderment about the archaeology they work with. When was the last time we actually sensed or âfeltâ something good about archaeology? Should we leave those groovy, positive vibes to the academics, amateurs and âhobbyistsâ alone? I remember a time when I wasnât paid that much (well, Iâm still not paid that well) and the conditions were crap. Yet there was a sense of togetherness, a somewhat disgruntled yet cohesive âband-of- brothers (and sisters)â. I dig, you dig, we dig. Even when I got to the heady heights of project management, there was a sense of âwe are ALL in it for the archaeologyâ. There was a steady influx of enthusiastic people (both young and old) into archaeology, straight from university or otherwise. It was a broad church accepting of virtually all (ok, there were a few mavericks and nutters⦠hey, they allowed me in!). Archaeology units actually talked to each other⦠diggers, project officers, managers from differing companies actually communicated with each other (aka a night down the pub). Even at the inception of PPG16 and competitive tendering, there was a sense of competition yet co-operation amongst the throng.
Unfortunately, quite recently, the profession is faltering (personal view). The good âole days are gone. Iâve seen many good, in fact fantastic, archaeologists leave the profession recently (for whatever reason⦠poor wages, poor conditions, bad employers). Nobody seems to care⦠the unit attitude that âwe can always find new bloodâ still seems to be prevalent. Errmm⦠sorry but itâs not. Any self-respecting archaeology student with a £10k debt behind them isnât going to go into archaeology as a career. Theyâll find a proper job⦠or at least a job which pays enough to live on, get a mortgage and clear the debt (failing that mummy and daddy will always bail them out). Companies now operate in isolation, the diggers donât drink together anymore (my⦠sounds like the beginning of a Specials track).
Now, I hear (and sometimes been a part of) it all. The curator versus contractor arguments, the curator versus consultant arguments, the contractor versus consultant arguments, the specialist versus contractor arguments, the specialist versus specialist arguments, the developer versus consultant, curator and contractor arguments and now⦠and by no means least⦠the contractor versus contractor arguments. The list goes on (ad nauseum⦠yawn). Bitching, biting, backstabbing, bleating⦠lots of âBâ words (there are many words from the rest of the alphabet I could / would like to use⦠but I promised myself I wouldnât swear).
Here, Iâm going to re-iterate something that was said by someone on BAJR many moons ago⦠but, well whatever⦠âArchaeology, the only profession that eats itâs own youngâ. At the time I thought⦠âdamn cheek!â But now⦠I sort of agree. It would seem the âprofessionâ of archaeology has become, for want of a better analogy, a very small tank containing very small sharks, all feeding on each other (is this a positive product of competitive tendering, I ask?). All this looks rather comical, if not worrying, to neighbouring and allied professions (take for instance IHBCâs viewpoint on the Heritage White Paper). Until we, finally, get round to full-accreditation, we will always seem a bit shamateur. How can we become âprofessionalâ when we canât even agree what we are (definition), what we should be paid and where we are going. To carry on with the shark analogy⦠we swim around in circles, taking bites out of each others tails and bemoaning the fact that our tank just isnât big enough (for some reason Iâve got an Escher drawing in my head). All those meetings between the governing bodies (IFA, CBA) and things like the Diggers Forum and, yes, BAJR are great... exceptionally worthy in their ideals. But without actual consensus and agreement, they are not worth the admission fee. Iâve come away from a few of them in the past⦠thinking, âwell, what was the point of all that?â To paraphrase Eli Wallach from the Good, the Bad and the Ugly⦠âIf we are going to shoot, shoot⦠donât talkâ.
Anyway the point of all this? I hope that one-day archaeology gets itself âsorted outâ. I just live for the day that archaeologist actually agree on something, they back each other up, they are accepting of others⦠that we actually have some unity. Iâll be waiting a while I suppose. Even after all these years, I still love archaeology⦠itâs the actual archaeologists Iâm not so sure about (and before you ask⦠Iâm a professional archaeologist)
N.B. the use of the term âhobbyâ in relation to metal detecting wasnât meant to be derogatory.