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+--- Thread: Have you used the ICE Conditions of Contract? (/showthread.php?tid=963)
Have you used the ICE Conditions of Contract? - BAJR Host - 3rd September 2008
Listen Unit... I am off in Jordan for a month... I am afraid I can't trust you to be good... so... see you in October.
"I don't have an archaeological imagination.."
Borekickers
Have you used the ICE Conditions of Contract? - michael heaton - 3rd June 2009
This is all very gratifying. As one of the authors of the CoC I am delighted that it is being used and discussed. Mr 1man1desk is absolutely spot-on in his understanding of the purpose and use of the CoC and I woudl be delighted if he woudl contact me. Those of you too miserly to buy a copy of the CoC and GN will probbaly find copies in their local technical university library. All other professions publish their CoCs and no-one thinks twice about buying a copy - you have only to do it once. For the record, I attended all-day meetings in London, once a month for c. 3 years - unpaid. I'll leave you all to work out how much it cost me personally.
It's only shortcoming is that it assumes (as did the non-archaeologists on the CCSJC) that professional archaeologists have a working understanding of contract law - and few do - and that we had appropropriate pricing and 'valuation' mechanisms - which we don't. See my articles in TA about Measured Work etc. It would benfit from us drawing up compatible CoC's for sub-contracting (all specialists are sub-contractors)and a range of 'valuation' mechanisms for the different types of work we undertake.
For those of you thinking about revision of it, I'll relate a quick exchange that took place at the final meeting of the CoC Working Group that illustrates the enormous gulf in professional understanding between archaeologists and the big boys in suits, in this case Civil Engineers.
(Scene: boardroom with long table packed with suits, male and female, and two blokes in sports jackets; side board groaning with top notch sandwiches, tea and fruit juice. The last revisions to the draft have been agreed with resident barrister and it is set to go to the printers).
Senior officer of the IFA: "What are the arrangements for review and revision of the CoC during its first few years of use ?"
Stern-looking suit at head of table: "We will review it when a judge tells us to."
Welcome to the real world..
Mike Heaton
mike@michaelheaton.co.uk
michael j heaton
Have you used the ICE Conditions of Contract? - Unitof1 - 12th June 2009
heaton
I dont think that this CoC marries with
http://www.archaeology.demon.co.uk/ABC%202008.doc
and somebody smells of elder berries
Have you used the ICE Conditions of Contract? - 1man1desk - 19th June 2009
I can't see any contradiction - in fact the two things follow on from each other very logically.
1man1desk
to let, fully furnished
Have you used the ICE Conditions of Contract? - Unitof1 - 19th June 2009
all my luv
Quote:quote3) Discard all forms of wage control and encourage self-employment and sub-contracting, especially for Site Operations, Processing and Specialist services. The definition of ?self employment? is critical here and I am aware of anecdotal evidence that this contract form is being abused by at least three archaeological employers.
Together, these would double the average income of commercial archaeologists within 5 years.
Have you used the ICE Conditions of Contract? - the invisible man - 21st June 2009
What an interesting, thought-provoking and well-considered document this is, by Heaton. I really don't see what it has to do with the current thread though. The para you reprdouce should be read in context and is in no way contrary to the CoC.
Have you used the ICE Conditions of Contract? - Unitof1 - 21st June 2009
what
you are right
it isnt worth the effort
Have you used the ICE Conditions of Contract? - michael heaton - 26th June 2009
All this demonstrates the average 'professional' archaeologists pitiful understanding of contract and professional law. If archaeological degrees adopted the legal modules taught to the architects, surveyors, engineers, planners etc. down the corridor (real professionals), we wouldn't be having this discussion.
I suggest many of you need to 1) buy a copy of the CoC and GN, and 2) buy some basic text books on contract law and construction law. I can recommend Murdoch, J., and Hughes, W., 2000, Construction Contracts: Law and Management(Spon). Ironically, the authors work at Reading University, probably down the corridor from the IfA (Institute for Aitchison...only joking Peter)
michael j heaton
Have you used the ICE Conditions of Contract? - BAJR Host - 26th June 2009
...ooooooh you are awrful! ! but we like you.
and you do highlight, quite rightly that the average archaeologist does not understand the contract laws.. so yes
spend a bit of time... and look at the books... after all, you don't want to worry later do you, or come out with the I assumed defence!
Constant development is the law of life, and a man who always tries to maintain his dogmas in order to appear consistent drives himself into a false position.
Mohandas Gandhi
Have you used the ICE Conditions of Contract? - Unitof1 - 26th June 2009
What don?t the ifa or you make a copy available on their web site?
Quote:quote:We recommend that, irrespective of whether the planning authority requests a pre-determination evaluation, clients should commission such works before finalising project budgets and preferable before site purchase..
Would you have signed up the client to an ice contract before site purchase?