UKDFD proposal for Data transfer

[vulpes]

I stand corrected!

On another note I must stress that any views I express on here are my own, not those of my employers, which is why I use an alias... should, or did allow me freer rein. I'll have to get a new one now!

[Corinne Mills]

quote:Originally posted by BAJR Host

I am glad this has all come up
I actually find the Twitter comment quite odd... and as it is public am happy for it to stand. ( i think it is not from Mike, but from PAS)

This comment was not made by PAS

[vulpes]

quote:What is coming out is that HERs are underfunded (I know only too well) and unable to undertake the large amount of data on offer - let alone this extra data

That statement is not necessarily a true representation, but they are publicly accountable and any work has to be justified by the results, a question of value. The question is... is the data being provided in a an easily transferable format? If it is... such as that from the PAS... the work required to transfer it is minimal. All a question of compatability.. why we have standards, compliance etc. Not just for fun! By the way all these standards are publicly accessible so no reason why UKDFD could not subscribe to them. We, quite rightly, live in an audit culture.

[garybrun]

quote:Originally posted by Corinne Mills

quote:Originally posted by BAJR Host

I am glad this has all come up
I actually find the Twitter comment quite odd... and as it is public am happy for it to stand. ( i think it is not from Mike, but from PAS)

This comment was not made by PAS

I agree Corrine.
It was made by Mike.

Website for responsible Metal Detecting
http://www.ukdfd.co.uk
Recording Our Heritage For Future Generations.

[BAJR Host]

One thing I am interested in is the HER software.. databases.. HERs have several some HBSMR (an access database as well) while others have their own, I even know of one that has no database - just cards..

Given the ease you are able to transfer data, and the difficulty others are having (been two years now) perhaps you may consider marketing your version (seriously.. ! perhaps we could discuss this elsewhere)

To sum up, and I think it may be good to sum up.

The offer of UKDFD data whether it is possible to be accepted or not, is a step forward, and will hopefully mean that terms such as irresponsible will cease to be used. I believe there is room for both, and that BOTH the PAS and UKDFD can get on with what they do... the ability to transfer data is there, but in reality, perhaps the HERs are not the best place for that data, but should just reside on the websites, with the ability for more detailed queries and research. Which is where they are more useful.

I can happily support both. I can also comment that the funding for HERs is insufficient for what is asked of them, they do a cracking job, but how much more they could do, if properly funded and staffed.

?When a sinister person means to be your enemy, they always start by trying to become your friend.?
William Blake

[vulpes]

quote:perhaps the HERs are not the best place for that data, but should just reside on the websites

Can't possibly agree with this statement.

Oh, and Access isn't ours to sell, perhaps you should be talking to Microsoft? I'm quite happy that HBSMR is probably the best off the peg system - it is (or can be) Access based though as far as I'm aware. Database design isn't rocket science, and most HERs are quite small and static datasets really when compared with applications outside of archaeology. Increasingly HERs are online, and this is the way forward - one stop shops.

Really said all I want to on this issue. Am taking my ball home now.

[Paul Belford]

I have recently become aware of some facts and figures which might (or might not) have a bearing on this debate, and, since they were at my fingertips I thought I would put them up here.


Firstly...

Gary told us on 13th March that "...at the time of writing, 14219 of the 16233 records on the UKDFD database have not been recorded elsewhere". For the sake of argument let us asume that these 2014 are in fact recorded with the PAS or directly with HERs.

Interestingly on that very same day I was given a report by a PAS person. In 2007 alone 66,311 archaeological objects were recorded on the PAS database. Moreover "on 13th March 2009 there were 376,957 objects published on the scheme's website".

Gary's 14,219 objects therefore represent about 3.6% of the total 393,190 objects recorded by both PAS and UKDFD.

In relation to vulpes' comments, it is therefore perhaps not surprising that HERs prefer to use 96.4% of the data which is in a compatible form, and not spend a lot of time chasing the remaining data which is not compatible with their systems.


and secondly...

Gary's site has been online since 2005, so let's call that four years - an average of around 4,000 objects per year.

The PAS has been in operation since 1997, so let's call that 12 years - an average of around 31,400 objects per year.

So I would conclude from this that for every metal-detectorist recording with UKDFD there are 8 who prefer to record with the PAS. From this it could be argued that the PAS might, in fact, be more representative of the metal-detecting community than UKDFD.

[garybrun]

Hi Paul.
Thanks for your comments.
See the UKDFD mission statement http://www.ukdfd.co.uk/pages/mission.html

This has nothing to do with percentages.
UKDFD was set up to record items that would not otherwise have been recorded due to various reasons.
We record data that the PAS don't even record which we see as the archaeology of tomorrow.
There is not a competition who can record the most items... it is to RECORD THE HERITAGE.

[BAJR Host]

vulpes... you may not know this but HBSMR is access database too. You can create a database system based on Access and sell it, though people need access to use it, so Microsoft don't lose out (do they ever)

I create databases (using access and MYSQL) so am quite a dab hand.. I sell them as well..
Creating a database is not rocket science, creating a good interrelational one is more demanding though.

Paul, you could say that the extra one detectorist out of 9 is one more than the PAS would have, and so is good for all.. I would rather have that one extra every time... a positive look at it..

As gary says, its not a competition, it is all about recording what is found... and thus being 'responsible'

?When a sinister person means to be your enemy, they always start by trying to become your friend.?
William Blake

[vulpes]

Oh Bajr, read before posting!!!! remember your AUP. I said above that HBSMR is Access based....