Council contractors list and the IFA

[vulpes]

quote:If the work is building recording MIFA is the wrong qualification. MIHBC is the right one.

Completely misinformed, I'm afraid. Working personally with a collection of IHBC members they (Conservation Officers) have little experience of building recording to EH standards. MIFA and IHBC are not qualifications they are memberships of professional bodies commensurate with experience. Many MIFAs are well qualified to carry out building recording and regularly do. IHBC members are generally (spot generalisiation) more geared up to advise on the conservation, care and repair of historic buildings (the clue is in the C - for conservation). Archaeologists by their training are more equipped in many ways for the analytical and skills required and many archaeologists have and do diversify into building recording.

That said, some IHBC members are no doubt splendid building recorders, just as are some MRICS, architects etc. As a curator I would be more concerned with an awareness of the standards, a track record and with the end result.

Strange that someone who one day suggests that we are now 'Historic Environment Professionals' the next day suggests that we're not qualified to record buildings. [?]

[BAJR Host]

I always went for the "successfully completed similar work within...."

"Entrepreneurs are simply those who understand that there is little difference between obstacle and opportunity and are able to turn both to their advantage."
Niccolo Machiavelli

[kevin wooldridge]

I would also take issue with Peter over the matter of European law regarding heritage and 'competition'. I can think of at least 6 out of 27 EU and 3 EEA countries (I haven't worked in all of them so cant comment on the other 24) that have heritage legislation severely limiting or completely curtailing effective 'competition' amongst 'Heritage Environment Professionals'.

That being the case in at least a fifth of EU/EAA nations why should restriction based on competence be a matter of debate in the UK?

This idea that UK archaeology cannot have effective regulation due to the constraints of EU competition law seems to be one of the myths occassionaly trotted out on BAJR that has no basis in reality.

That John Armour could have a point you know....}



With peace and consolation hath dismist, And calm of mind all passion spent...

[historic building]

Just to throw this one into the bear pit. Just to suppose a Heritage supplementary planning guidance was produced which stated '...all archaeological works, in answer to archaeological conditions, will be undertaken by a professionally qualified individual or organisation, as required by paragraph (cannot remember which one off hand of PPG16). Council X recognises organisations registered with the IfA RAO scheme and individuals in possession of MIFA status as demonstrating such professional qualifications.' Assuming this document is adopted it would have a considerable force in planning terms.

[Paul Belford]

Are you actually quoting from a draft of the new PPS (or PPS-related guidance)? Or have you made this up?

I suspect that this is the way things will go.

[drpeterwardle]

Vulpes said I am completely misinformed and a curator his should know as he works with conservation officer types who dont know how to record a building.

I suggest you read the following:

http://www.ihbc.org.uk/membership/docs/A...d_Comp.pdf

"which says:
4. RESEARCH/RECORDING/ANALYSIS: Ability to carry out or commission
research, analysis and recording of the historic environment and to maintain records accordingly.

4.1 To be able to advise on appropriate techniques and levels of recording required for
historic buildings or sites affected by development proposals and identify the most
appropriate bodies or individuals to undertake such work.
4.2 To be able to make rapid and emergency recording of buildings and groups of
buildings affected by development proposals including archival research.
4.3 To be able to plan, prepare and execute a programme of detailed recording of
structures and sites affected by development proposals, including photographic and
graphic representation using conventional drawing techniques and/or CAD."

I am worried that a curator does not know this and thinks that any archaeologists can undertake building recording. The clause asked for MIFA or MIHBC or eqvivalent qualifications seems perfectly fair enough to me.

To be "Wednesday Unreasonable" as David suggests is also not applicable. To be Wednesbury unreasonable you have to be so unreasonable that no other no LPA would ask for the thing in question.

Peter

[BAJR Host]

"That John Armour could have a point you know...."

yikes...

At least corrections can be made ... and misinformation discussed openly

"Entrepreneurs are simply those who understand that there is little difference between obstacle and opportunity and are able to turn both to their advantage."
Niccolo Machiavelli

[Noddy]

quote:Originally posted by drpeterwardle

There are futher difficulties specifying that an organisation or a person must belong to the IFA before they can work in an area I think this may infringe EU competition and work regulations. Any archaeological company is entitled to work any where in the EU and I believe local government cannot inhibit this.

quote:Originally posted by drpeterwardle

The clause asked for MIFA or MIHBC or eqvivalent qualifications seems perfectly fair enough to me.

Make up your mind peter!

[drpeterwardle]

The original post said:

"form it stipulates that in order for the council to let me do the work i have to be a MIFA"

but in fact the actual brief said:

"MUST` be led by a member of the IFA or IHBC or equivalent"

Which in fact is very different and overcomes the problems.

Peter
(I think discussing EU law and if archaeologists are the right people to record buildings is another thread so I will stay on topic and not discuss this but I suggest people especially curators should read Kate Clarke brilliant publication Informned conservation and what she has to say on the subject!)

[vulpes]

Peter, suggest you stop digging lest the sides fall in!!

To be clear it was you that said archaeologists were not up to recording buildings. I was at pains to point out that what matters are the skills and experience of the individuals concerned not the letters after their names whether IHBC, MIFA or indeed PhD. All are only an indication of the above and perfectly good, even exemplary work continues to be done by people with and without these initialisations.

The fact is - one day you suggest that archaeologists are now 'Historic Environment Professionals' who can work across the HE and the next you suggest that (not even some?) archaeologists cannot record buildings. I'm sure that fellow members of the IFA Buildings Archaeology Group would beg to differ. There is more to being a curator than simply ticking off whether someone is a member of this or that organisation and ruling out their involvement on that basis.

quote:I am worried that a curator does not know this and thinks that any archaeologists can undertake building recording

This statement completely misrepresents my previous post. But thanks for questioning my competence on this basis. Nice.