The BAJR Federation - moving the forum

[chiz]

David, thanks for clarifying that; as I said, I knew what you really meant, but many wouldn't.

I agree that communication isn't good, and would hope that it will improve soon. Jez has been on site pretty much constantly for the past year or two but has been doing what he can, I imagine the same is true for Chris although I haven't seen him since xmas. I know its not an excuse, but as Kathryn says they are volunteers, and don't have any time except their own. And if you are on site 5 days a week its different from being in an office where you can knock off an email newsletter in your lunchbreak.
If more people offered to help out, then communication could improve rapidly, but when it is only a few people then it is harder, especially when they are working hard on site. Unfortunately lack of visible communication/results is a self-fulfilling prophesy, and you can see how the original drive (and quite frankly courage to set this up in the first place) was depleted by the tide of apathy. I have offered to help as I believe in what they are doing, and have offered some of my training handouts as freebies for any newsletter. Of course when nothing is really happening its hard to know what to write, and expectations are always high, and results normally low. But yes, to communicate and listen is essential. But also to get involved and support.

I have heard about the website issue from four or five different people, including yourself, and everyone has a slightly different version! Lets just move on in a positive way.

I look forward to a DF relaunch, supported by all who support archaeology. Hopefully it will have some form of webpage, and regular communication to report activities and get feedback/support/ideas.

I also look forward to the new BAJR fora, and Fedspace and seeing how they develop, and would like to thank you again. I've just got some queries about how it will work (as usual).

[BAJR Host]

I would expect no more... as just people nodding and agreeing does not make a good federation...

I hope people are now clear on what I mean, and yes.. you were right to flag it up .

It does show the problems that can arise when an organistion relies on peoples free time. I seriously hope that the Federation can provide that extra support to the DF.


As you say...

But yes, to communicate and listen is essential. But also to get involved and support.

and this is as true for the Fed as anyone. and can I say, the IfA have been doing this now far more - providing the info for people to know/see what is happening. a real positive move.

I am more than happy to offer moderatorship to those that want to take on the responsibility.. (and boy it is!) but I realise that I have to keep driving forward, even if it means working til midnight and getting up at 6am.. yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn I am slightly mad/driven though. normal people have lives.. and maggie does remind me of this. But, yes, even up a mountain in Croatia, I don't stop, I keep checking, looking, thinking... and the joy of mobile internet has allowed me to do this. I was told today onsite while I snacked a coffee and fag for lunch... why are you looking at the internet.............

I now have a bluetooth keyboard.. so its easier for me to keep in touch and keep BAJR running... I LOVE IT!! for no other reason than I am still a field arch.. and proud of it, as good as anyone else, but not better than.

ahem...

anyway, will get up early on Saturday.. adn go through your points... as my Mum used to say... "I hope your not taking on too much" I always used to say... "never" plenty time to rest when I am dead!



Constant development is the law of life, and a man who always tries to maintain his dogmas in order to appear consistent drives himself into a false position.
Mohandas Gandhi

[Austin Ainsworth]

quote:Originally posted by BAJR Host

But, yes, even up a mountain in Croatia, I don't stop, I keep checking, looking, thinking...

I had the devil of a job to stop Rat checking in on BAJR every five minutes - Walking through an ancient forest on the side of a mountain while surveying a preserved Medieval landscape and the mad bugger was still thinking of this website and the Federation. [:0]

And now back :face-topic:

[BAJR Host]

quote:An inclusive arena in which groups can discuss/host/communicate? As per existing BAJR, but with separate sections. Can I suggest that the 'section' aspect needs looking into carefully? What I like about Bajr is that anyone can pitch in (some of us too often!), and eg the metal detecting forum, is an arena in which people who would not otherwise talk to each other, do so, and discuss issues openly. I would like to see this continue. I don't think we maybe need all the existing fora, as there is a lot of crossover and there could be some amalgamation? and with say another ten sections, it may become unmanageable?

The Main Forum area of the BAJR Federation would be almost as here: with the following categories

Site Hut (General Discussion)

News (Archaeology in the News)

Starting Out (Advice and Help)

Metal Detecting in the UK

Commercial and Planning

(NEW) Group Link ? for groups to ask questions of other groups


The new system will allow photo galleries and video uploads..

In other words, the existing BAJR Forum becomes .. the BAJR Forum plus (no real difference other than bells and whistles) so all the same crossover and frank exchanges

The MAIN change is additional members only forums, where entry is by invite/application These are called Groups and relate to specific ?sections? of archaeology ? formed by and maintained by these groups. So therefore A Ceramic group could contain people who have an interest in that particular specialism ? ie Medieval Pottery Research group, the Archaeological Ceramic Building Materials Group, Study Group for Roman Pottery etc

This place allows them ALL to talk and discuss issues, advances and ideas that they may wish to discuss between themselves, while the option exists to discuss on the open forum. The same is true for a Student Group, a Divers group, and Illustrators Group etc?.

quote:Concept sounds sensible, out of interest do groups like AAI&S and ADA etc have a 'forum' at present? I think some of these groups have facebook groups, but I don't use that. In fact doesn't BAJR have a facebook group? Are these groups actually saying they want a web-forum hosted here? I can see some problems:

Some do, some don?t? its not the point really, this becomes a gathering place, somewhere where you don?t just get to meet people in your particular area? but can rub shoulders with everyone else? an example is one where the Divers ask the illustrators about creating standards in underwater draughting? ( which is real btw) the Fedration group forums are a hub. Yes BAJR is on Facebook and Twitter? and a few other places, but I am using technology to inform and link? this is no different.

quote:You talk of validation into sections, eg by AAI&S, yet how will this work? I am a professional illustrator as part of my work, yet have not chosen to join the AAI&S, but am a member of the IfA Survey and Illustration SIG (which anyone interested can join). Am I allowed in?

Of course you would, you would either be invited by an existing member, or ask to join, citing above? the group would decide

quote:Someone interested in illustration, eg a student, would want to be a part of discussions and I can imagine gaining a lot from such a forum, but how are they allowed in? So if there is an official AAI&S forum (members only), there would have to be a further non-AAI&S members forum for all the people interested in illustration, but not in the AAI&S? You say by invite only? But these are subscription based groups, why should they allow someone in for nothing? What is their opinion? And invitation only excludes the interested party or useful tangental view from a separate discipline.
Do you see my point?

It is NOT an AAI&S group --- it is an Illustrators Group and someone interested in illustration would ask to join, and say why? its not hard and works on thousands of other such network sites? (ie Land Surveyors? where I was invited, based on what I showed I could do) Remember there is always the main forum, where people can ask about illustration?etc? so, interested in illustration (not exactly hundreds) have a talk about it on the main forum, illustrators can answer, just like here now? however, for illustrators themselves, an area that allows them to discuss issues such as copyright, pay and conditions, freelance etc, up to them if they want that open to all, or closed? I would not presume what they would want.

quote:We could have full accredited members (validated by professional group) and 'prospects', but what about for your field archaeologist group, the validation would be by membership of the ifA? Are illustrators allowed in Field Archaeology? Who says someone is a field archaeologist? Or not?

Don?t quite get you there, but indeed that?s an issue we wrestle with? and indeed is one of the main problems about the field archaeologist?

Criteria? do you work in the field? Are you an excavating archaeologist? As it happens I could ask to join the surveyors group, the digital arch group, the field arch group, the illustrators group? as I could show relevant experience and prove ability.

The Field Arch is going to be the BIG one? correct me if I am wrong, but as it stands? there is no Field Arch validation? You could say PIFA? But does that check to see if you can level, plan? Dig? Draw a plan?

quote:Will we lose a lot of the free-flow of opinion, ideas and knowledge that we currently get from having all fora open to all members?

See above? the Main forum remains as is? the sub groups would pertain to stuff that would not be on here in the first place.

quote:I like the idea of documentation available to all, or just members, and would repeat my suggestion that certain documents could be commissioned by Sections and available for a small fee, any eventual profits going back into the organisation (eg model contracts for freelancers, model terms and conditions and other 'legal' stuff that would need paying for/checking professionally)

Public Documents (such as the BAJR Guides ? two more on photography coming out in a week.. and one of getting started coming out in 3 weeks )

Private documents? that?s up to the groups? no reason why groups can?t cooperate to pay for legal stuff?

quote:Calendar sounds good, again, does it need to have separate calendars by group? An active group sells itself to new members by having lots of events/meetings/seminars etc, and by potential members seeing that the group offers a lot of bang for their buck. Have a single calendar with a checklist of 'sections', like in the find a specialist map?

That?s exactly how it happens?. Each group has its own calendar, and ticks whether it wants the event also on the public calendar or just theirs?

quote:Costs? Again, I'd repeat my concerns from the old thread (which no-one answered). How much will this cost, just in domain rental, electricity, harddrive/computer space (especially with potentially thousands of photos), let alone time. This should not be allowed to be born by David, its not fair, and it leaves the organisation in his control, which is wrong if the organisation is to be what is intended. It should not either be, or seen to be, his 'football' that he can take away when he doesn't want to play anymore.

I know we're all skint, but we have to accept that there are costs, and know what they are. This needs a statement from David so we can see where we stand. It may be a ?1 a year sub, or a ?5 one-off membership fee, I don't know.

If BAJR would be hosting fora for professional, subscription bodies, then should they be charged for this service?

As it stands, charging is an issue? as that would then require formalisation, with all the posts,costs etc? in discussion with the Companies House, they suggested keep it simple?

If it needs to expand, it will, but only when it is ready to.

As to me taking away my football? I can assure you, I never have and never would be that petty? #61514;

quote:Can I ask who would share the admin time, presumably one or two moderators from each section would put a bit of time in keeping things up to date? I don't want David getting snowed under with more, unpaid work.

YES YES YES

But then again, each group would have its own admins? I would (along with the current crew) look after the BAJR Federation Open Forum

quote:We are all in this together, pull your weight! I am personally disappointed by the lack of discussion on the Fed idea, apart from a few people, and some very interesting points, most people seem to have chosen not to participate in the discussion about whether it is needed, what it should be, and how it should operate. This is really very sad, and I would hope that more people would realise that we're all responsible for the state we're in, and we can't expect someone else to do it for us....

Very True? though many people just want it happening and will go for it? without taking any active involvement? dats life!

quote:I don't care about hats, I care about whether this will work!

Hats are so last century ? this is about linking people, a natural step forward of the Forum? more resources, more options for different groups to communicate and cooperate? This is the Federation? not a replacement of anything currently on the market, but a new way of talking. Its what BAJR has always done.. and a great strength, where a Curator can talk to a digger and visa versa.. where consultants will argue with osteologists etc? I often get contact from people who love reading and learning, but never talk? That won?t change. It also means I don?t have too much extra to do? When BAJR began 10 years ago, it was suggested it would never last, when the job adverts were set to fixed minima it was said it would fold , it did not, when it stuck its nose into places it was not welcome, it was suggested that opinion would go against it.. (it did a bit) but in general, it was supported. BAJR was never really one person? and the Federation will make that real.


Constant development is the law of life, and a man who always tries to maintain his dogmas in order to appear consistent drives himself into a false position.
Mohandas Gandhi

[Paul Belford]

@Oz - mad buggers are what we need in archaeology



Paul Belford

[BAJR Host]

Flibbble ...

Constant development is the law of life, and a man who always tries to maintain his dogmas in order to appear consistent drives himself into a false position.
Mohandas Gandhi

[monty]

..indeed a dearth of mad buggers has been the case in recent years.............[8D]

[chiz]

David, thanks for your detailed reply, I think that its a lot clearer in my head now, and hopefully in others' too. Its sorted out a lot of the queries I had about where all this was going, which was why I asked such a lot of questions.

Group Link sounds good, is that the open forum, open to all members (of all or no groups), OR where for example the pottery people can arrange a 'private conference' with the illustrators?
I like the idea that you can have private threads, so all them bosses can have their own forum where they plot the sending of the stroppy diggers into slavery and exile in Babylon. Could get messy!!

I do think the costs should be borne by the users, where possible. I don't personally believe that at any point you will bleat 'its my football and I'm taking it home', but transparency is the key, some people out there will wrongly accuse you of imperialistic tendencies, when in fact you are just sponsoring a site for the use of others out of your generosity.

I realise there are all sorts of tax/accounts issues, and I know some have offered donations, I just wanted to know how much it all costs so
a) its all clear and above board,
b) people realise the commitment, work and effort you have put in and acknowledge it, and
c) we all live in a market economy which we serve passionately and the idea of something for nothing stinks of anarchist principles and MUST NOT BE ALLOWED

Sorry to go into such tedious detail at times, but I hope the feedback is useful, and will help any design/beta testing. Look forward to seeing how it develops

[BAJR Host]

phew... thanks for that... it does help to clear it up in my head too...! working on it and a big report today... plus a new guide is a coming! Photography!


Costs... could come in around 30 quid a month...

Time is as per ususal... I spend around 2 hours a day...

poss a bit more with this... but not much

so total costs to start with would be around 400 quid

and for time.. I put in about 1.5 days a week.

(excluding general BAJR work)

Constant development is the law of life, and a man who always tries to maintain his dogmas in order to appear consistent drives himself into a false position.
Mohandas Gandhi

[Austin Ainsworth]

quote:Originally posted by BAJR Host

phew... thanks for that... it does help to clear it up in my head too...! working on it and a big report today... plus a new guide is a coming! Photography!


Costs... could come in around 30 quid a month...

Time is as per ususal... I spend around 2 hours a day...

poss a bit more with this... but not much

so total costs to start with would be around 400 quid

and for time.. I put in about 1.5 days a week.

(excluding general BAJR work)

<hr>Constant development is the law of life, and a man who always tries to maintain his dogmas in order to appear consistent drives himself into a false position.
Mohandas Gandhi

So then 400 quid set up costs and running costs of 30 quid per month, not to mention 1.5 days per week lost day rate.

I agree with bob, the Federation should be a subscription service