pantomimes and farce:costumes and competence

[troll]

Hmmmmm.Grave goods and their meaning.....
A huge and superb subject but here, I think that the overwhelming message is simply that an individuals role in life is not by default, always reflected or symbolised in the acts preparatory to disposal.As has been said by others here and, penned in many publications, grave goods may easily reflect the motivations of those who are doing the burying/cremating rather than a deliberate attempt to characterise the dead themselves.The mourners may deposit items that were a part of the dead`s favourite pastimes, items that were seen as momentos of events in the past, items that were given as gifts during life. Social/group/community identity may or not be the prime catalysts for structured deposits.Of course, when we venture into the realms of phenomenology,behavioural dynamics and the dreaded "ritual"-the waters are seriously muddied and the interpretive potential almost infinite. I think that we still suffer from vulnerability to "just-so" stories and in terms of "warrior" burials, may equally suffer from occasional bouts of romanticism.

[sniper]

objects can also be placed in a burial to dispose of them and whatever they stood for, see The Deposed Princess of Vix. You may not be honouring, commemorating, showing off etc etc, but getting rid of the person and the items that were specifically associated with them. Burying a person with their personal possessions may be a convenient way of trying to make people forget about them, and what they represented, rather quickly...

++ i spend my days rummaging around in dead people ++

[john1504]

quote:grave goods may easily reflect the motivations of those who are doing the burying/cremating rather than a deliberate attempt to characterise the dead themselves

If one considers ancient burial practices in the light of the present-day ritual, then there is the 'danger' of placing our beliefs and practices on them. But the consensus of opinion regarding ancient burial practices reflects a view that they were very much different from us, being more in awe of the afterlife, and the need to be prepared for it, which included taking what items you could with you.

It is always possible that the relatives or friends of the deceased wanted him/her to have a better way of life in the nether world, and 'presented' them with grave goods that would help improve their status. It could explain why there are so many women and children buried with weapons, but somehow I can't see the 'warrior class' allowing this to happen if, as I believe, they were so jealous of their status. Were this the case, wouldn't we see much more 'high-status' graves?

[Cautionary Tale]

I agree with troll, a great subject. Troll will remember playing with BA cremations not so long ago which gave the distinct impression that the important bit was (perhaps) the preparation of the body (ie up to cremation), the cremation itself, the transport of the urn to the 'final resting place' and the ceremony of placing the cremation into the ground, not necessarily anything that happened after given the number of intercutting burials which caused not inconsiderable damage (although the intercutting may have significance of its own i readily agree).
John makes a sound point about not impressing our own beliefs on the past, them falls into the trap of assuming a parrallel society structure to the present - matriarchal anyone? after all, who wants to do the risky business of fighting when you can send of the expendable warriors to do it for you....i feel the phenonological part of my brian stirring (control of somatic space[xx(] - stop it now!)


Haec olim meminisse iuvabit

[troll]

John-there is no such thing as a concensus of opinion in archaeology.The "status" of inhumed/cremated individuals is an old pre-occupation of antiquarians. Sadly, there are those amongst us who indulge in television quality theorising. Frankly, interpretation of an individual and or their society through the study of grave goods is fraught with danger.In simple terms, material culture alone is no grounds for even assuming belief in an "afterlife". Phenomenology in my view is a world apart from the study of material culture although they are not mutually exclusive.I started this thread as I`m fascinated by behaviour.In particular, how people today read each others clothing and appearence. Interestingly, we still tend to allocate "class", intelligence, competence and whole boat load of political inferences through reading facial expression and clothing. It seems to be a survival technique in the sense that potential threat is assessed at a safe distance. Recognising the meaning and sybolism of the appearence of another also defines and reconfirms "status" or, the social grouping that you choose to identify with. Don`t forget, we don`t even understand ourselves yet! Material culture and of course grave goods are important elements of any study but, belief systems and ideologies are areas of study where a wider bandwidth of analyses is needed.Osteology in my view is the only approach in funerary archaeology that leads to factual/inferential data relating to the characteristics of the dead.Everything else in the funerary narrative reflects the behaviour of those who are doing the burying/cremating (and of course the archaeologists excavating).And yes Barnsey! Hope you are well! Extremely tasty cremations sir.Still jealous.

[sniper]

nice to know that my job is appreciated by someone. afraid to say that there are still far too many archaeologists who see human remains as "bl**dy stiffs" who get in the way and take up too much time but will lavish hours of time and pages and pages of theorising on the pottery and small finds that those "bl**dy stiffs" made in the first place while the report on the human remains is restricted to a few pages at the back of the book and is left entirely unrelated to, and un-cross referencable with, the rest of the material. Certain people are catching on, but there is still a long way to go before human remains are seen as an integral part of project designs, interpretations and publications. While universities can still go and excavate tombs without seeing the need to consult or employ an osteologist at any stage of the project, the situation can be regarded as certainly less than OK.

++ i spend my days rummaging around in dead people ++

[the invisible man]

I wonder if a uni did such a thing, if said uni was a RAO, it would be in contravention of the codes and standards?

Unfortunately I think only 3 unis are RAO's and it's their contracting unit that is the member. Maybe that's why...

We owe the dead nothing but the truth.

[john1504]

quote:Originally posted by troll

John-there is no such thing as a concensus of opinion in archaeology.

[:0]......All those years of reading books and watching Time Team, etc wasted.......

Explains quite a lot actually. If there is no consensus, how then are the published reports of a dig consolidated? If a paper is published with several authors, surely they must have agreed on the conclusions reached (eventually..). Someone told me once that you could put 300 archaeologists in a room with an object,and by the end of the day you'd have 300 different theories..I now understand what was meant....nothing unusual there though, as the same would probably happen if they were detectorists. So I take it from this that any 'school of thought' on a subject is usually only the theory of an individual, or even a few people, but not archaeology in general?

[sniper]

there are as many different theories as there are people to come up with them, but that's half the point I think. If there was one theory about everything that everyone in archaeology agreed with, we might as well hang up our trowels and go home. New evidence will provoke new theories, which will be disputed by someone else and their bit of new evidence, and three different people will have three different theories about the same new piece of evidence...that's half the fun of it.

and invisible, the uni I am talking about are not in the UK, but they are not the only one by any means. I have two examples about appalling standards by different universities in the same foreign country and they just seem to be able to get away with it...for now }

++ i spend my days rummaging around in dead people ++

[deepdigger]

Good comment but, cremation is the main funerary rite in Britain now so what grave goods will there be for future archaeologists to find?

deep