making it up

[Lilac]

quote:Originally posted by SalonKitty




Well do something then.

well said

lol

[troll]

and just what do you think this is......its called dialogue in a public place.May I refer the honorable subscribers to at the very least-the last year of threads on BAJR.

..knowledge without action is insanity and action without knowledge is vanity..(imam ghazali,ayyuhal-walad)

[Lilac]

quote:Originally posted by troll

Agreed.After writing to the IFA/APPAG and not even receiving an acknowledgement years ago, I was naive enough to believe that dialogue here would go some way towards promoting change.I have been openly critical of the system for eleven years-not something remotely comparable to "sitting outside and complaining".

Troll, you say that you thought this message board might go some way towards changing the current situation, since you have had little success in other places - but this is a place where very few people give out their real identities (your good self included - or, at least, I am assuming that your real name is not Mr Troll.....forgive me if I'm wrong ), so how do you expect a real change to come from here? If you are a field archaeologist (as I assume you are) with at least 11 years of experience, have you ever considered moving up the food chain & affecting a change from the other side? It seems to me that there is not a huge amount you can do by just talking to people on BAJR and on site.

[1man1desk]

Quotes from Troll:

quote:I have been openly critical of the system for eleven years-not something remotely comparable to "sitting outside and complaining

quote:and just what do you think this is......its called dialogue in a public place.May I refer the honorable subscribers to at the very least-the last year of threads on BAJR

Well, being 'openly critical' and joining a 'dialogue in a public place' does not constitute action. If you have been critical for 11 years - when are you actually going to do something?

From Diggerhobbit:

quote:This messageboard/forum provides a moderated platform for frank and open discussion (a place where people can air their views without having to identify themselves)and hopefully this will result in some form of positive action and eventually bring about a change in archaeology

It will only have that effect if people do something outside the forum.



1man1desk

to let, fully furnished

[mercenary]

I'm have no doubt that the forum achieves things. Perhaps not the dramatic things that some of us would like, but small steps. Our host has amazed me in what he has been willing to try, and has achived a staggering amount.

I came onto this messageboard having the usual stereotypical field arch views of consultants, curators and other branches of archaeology that I had limited contact with. These views have been modified greatly by dialogue, sometimes testy, with forum contributor's. Thank you.

I'd like to think the reverse is also true.

Likewise a lot of the "lurkers" out there probably get feedback that they wouldn't normally hear elsewhere. I get the feeling that the BAJR messageboard is pretty representative of the industry, and possibly the only forum that cuts across the professional divides.

[Alfie]

I absolutely agree with Mercenary, and I would like to point out the up comming BAJR conferance, a joint effort which seeks to address some of the issues which have been discussed in this forum.That I would suggest is action whereas simply joining the IFA seems to me to be inaction.

[Tile man]

Well joining the IFA you are supporting an organisatrion with a strategy for meeting nad improving the proffesional aspirations of archaeologist, which includes the initiatives highlighted on BAJR and the IFA website, as well as supporting staff who can the discuss and lobby national organisations and govermental bodiees on behalf of the interests of archaeology.

For me probably the greatest threat that archaeology is facing at present is the lack of proper legeslative and financial support for local curatorial bodies. We are already seeing swinging cuts to some of these bodies by local autthorities in budgets being set this year. As it is unlikely that local taxation will be sorted anytime soon, with no requirment on local authorities to maintain these services I suspect next years budget cuts will be larger and spread over a great many local authorities.

What can we do about it? Well as an individual there is only so much time and money I can spend campaigning on a local or national level, but I can support organisations which can lobby - and with more members they can have increasing clout.

That is my analysis and part of what I am doing about it (in IFA, Rescue, CBA, Prospect and a number of other groupos) - You may of course disagree ...

Whilst it is important to be able to test your ideas, hear other perspectives and be as informed as possible a conference can inform action, but it is not really doing anything , or addrssing issuses per se.

[troll]

Just wondered how a conference can be anything other than "addressing issues"?

..knowledge without action is insanity and action without knowledge is vanity..(imam ghazali,ayyuhal-walad)

[Tile man]

As opposed to just talking about them?


It depends on definitions - and I think I was being sloppy with mine! (mea culpe)

To address an issue I meant discuss the problem, agree on the causes of the problem, discuss soultions, decide on best solution(s) and formulate a strategy to get those solutions implemented, and then do those actions. And there have already been many conferences and reports (think APPAG) which cover these areas.

The point is that whilst conferences can be very useful, they complement any strategy to improove thigs, and should not be seen as a goal in their own right.

I personally think that it would be a shame if the oppertunity of the BAJR conference just ended in 150 archaeologists telling each other how bad things are and were, in a kind of '150 yorkshiremen sketch'
which to my mind would fail to address any issues, and hardlyconstitute action

[troll]

I refer the subscriber to at least the last years worth of dialogue on this forum.Just to nudge you along a bit Tile Man...
Subscribers of all flavours have entered into open dialogue on many issues lately.The conference will see us all take the next step.Please do`nt make the mistake of imagining that BAJR consists of a random flock of misinformed muppets.One would imagine that members of a certain organisation would welcome a pro-active stand to the issues that face us all.Clearly not.The conferences and reports "APPAG" etc you mention have achieved what exactly?
This thread was offered to enable discussion relating to frankly inept report-writing and the lack of "monitoring" of such.Rather than belittle endeavours of subscribers here and,consistantly wave the flag of an organisation close to your heart-do you actually have anything positive to offer?

..knowledge without action is insanity and action without knowledge is vanity..(imam ghazali,ayyuhal-walad)