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27th February 2007, 07:45 PM
Have just got home after workingaway for a bit and have discovered lots of new bumf about movement on wages from the diggers forum!
Come on Mr Hosty - whats a happening now?
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27th February 2007, 08:11 PM
well... part from the leaflet... it is a push for contractors to take it serious...
Leaflets are Diggers Forum, BAJR Prospect and IFA all starting the pressure...
this is looking good... as no longer is it just us... it is at the level where all must listen!
"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu
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28th February 2007, 08:44 AM
First off the documents refered to are here:
http://www.bajr.org/documents/DiggerForumFlyer.pdf
http://www.bajr.org/documents/DiggerForumMemberForm.pdf
http://www.bajr.org/documents/DiggerForumPic.pdf
Second.... JOIN THE DF! at 5 quid a year.. it gets your voice deep into the heart of the IFA... even if you are not a member!
Third.. You are also responsible for what happens next.
Look at it this way... as long as diggers will work for companies that pay lower than others you will have companies that pay lower than others. If you only work for those that pay decent wages.. then those that don't will either have to shut down (not the best senario)or rise the pay and conditions to match what others can obviously afford.
This is ALL of us working together.. rather than "some" working on "manys" behalf.
"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu
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28th February 2007, 03:37 PM
Excellent - now does seem to be the time when diggers are beginning to have far more clout with a situation developing whereby there are now not enough experienced diggers to fill the vacancies!
I think in addition to joining the diggers forum (which does a great job) now would be the idea time for a membership drive by Prospect. It may even allow it to get out of the catch22 situation it appears to be in at the moment. People dont join because it doesnt seem to be doing anything - but it cant do anything because it doesnt have enough members!
Recently a Prospect rep met us in a pub after work to discuss membership - benifits, whats happening etc. All that we had to put in was our time, so I would urge diggers to get in touch and find out whats happening. It took two phonecalls and a couple of txts to arrange and we will hopefully have a move towards union recocnition soon.
Diggers are being listened to and they now have to take some reponcability for themselves - move away from the tea hut wingeing and start taking positive actions towards change
I know people complain about the money but on a diggers wage union subs are less than £6 a month and you cant tell me youll miss that! And £5 annual subs to join the diggers forum - come on thats two pints!! Even if all you want to do is sit back and let others sort the situation out at least give them the ammunition they need to do it :face-huh:
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28th February 2007, 04:49 PM
well said trowlfodder! (i do both!)
funny though how so many people are happy to moan in the tea hut but as soon as the word union is mentioned they clam up!
there still seems to be the idea that if people speak up or involve a union they suffer!
when are people going to understand that they have rights?
I for one am fed up with those who constantly moan about the state of archaeology, their job, the wages....but are not willing to do anything about it! We need you back here to give them a kick up the bum!!!!!!
ps looking forward to seeing you on friday!
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28th February 2007, 07:32 PM
I don't want anyone to think that I disagree with any of the comments made so far on this thread (I don't). I also believe that this campaign could be make or break as far as archaeological wages go and would therefore encourage everyone to support it, through either BAJR, Prospect or the IFA/Diggers Forum.
My one criticism is with whoevers idea it was to talk of a 'living wage'? Surely we already get a 'living wage', it's not a good wage, but nobody could argue that in the majority of cases it is insufficient to 'live' on.
What we really want is not a living wage, but a stonking good wage that reflects both our physical and intellectual input into this profession and enables us to feel that we achieve a degree of dignity as a result of our labours. So any chance we could rename it 'The Campaign for a Stonking Good Wage for Archaeologists' (or any similar word that ends in -ing and means roughly the same thing).
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Quote:quote:Originally posted by kevin wooldridge
"I don't want anyone to think that I disagree with any of the comments made so far on this thread (I don't). I also believe that this campaign could be make or break as far as archaeological wages go and would therefore encourage everyone to support it, through either BAJR, Prospect or the IFA/Diggers Forum.
My one criticism is with whoevers idea it was to talk of a 'living wage'? Surely we already get a 'living wage', it's not a good wage, but nobody could argue that in the majority of cases it is insufficient to 'live' on.
What we really want is not a living wage, but a stonking good wage that reflects both our physical and intellectual input into this profession and enables us to feel that we achieve a degree of dignity as a result of our labours. So any chance we could rename it 'The Campaign for a Stonking Good Wage for Archaeologists' (or any similar word that ends in -ing and means roughly the same thing)."
I would say, as an experienced digger who can command the princely sum of around £15.5 - £16k this is barely a living wage. When you have to move house every 6 months or year, it is not enough to live off. If you are younger and don't mind living in a large shared house or with your parents for the odd stretch it is reasonable. For someone a bit older or wanting some privacy / control over their bills and surroundings it is not enough to pay the bills and rent on the smallest dingiest flat in any British city, particularly if you add regular removal and deposit costs. It is the older people who have had to live this nomadic lifestyle off this wage all their lives who find it hardest. Personally I've got to the financial position where it is preferable to stay on benefit (where my rent and council tax is paid) and stay where I am until a local unit has work for me, and this can't be right! Agreed I could find work if I was willing to move again, or stay away from home for a stretch - again something older more experienced diggers are less inclined to do.
I am coming to the conclusion that regional franchising would be a very big help in allowing people enough stability to live off the low wage. But then, the industry seems to have survived so far with experienced people leaving in droves.
How some diggers can run cars I'll never understand....
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I do of course heartily applaud all involved in pushing this forwards but....
junior building site labourers wouldnt get out of bed for what we describe as a living wage.As most units see us as labourers anyway, can we at least have the wage of a labourer until we can persuade employers to both market and remmunerate us as the highly motivated and multi-skilled qualified and professional workforce that we really are?
..knowledge without action is insanity and action without knowledge is vanity..(imam ghazali,ayyuhal-walad)
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Apologies to Illuminated. I wasn't intending to suggest that the current wage levels in UK archaeology were anywhere near sufficient. I am suspicious however of pay campaigns that [u]limit</u> their ambitions to aims such as 'a living wage', unless that aim is clearly defined. Because as Illuminated suggests one persons living wage may not be another's.
If the Camapign is looking for a definition of a 'living wage' it might like to consider some of the factors that the European Parliament takes into account when it pronounces on a 'dignity wage' for its member citizens.
A 'dignity wage' takes into account factors which would be common to most of us, the right to be able to afford to live in a secure environment, to be able to afford to raise a family, to be able to afford to use ones holiday leave to have a holiday rather than take another job to earn more money, to ba able to earn sufficient to invest in achieving qualifications that further an individuals career prospects, to be able to afford to invest in a pension and make savings towards ones retirement etc etc. A campaign for an undefined 'living wage' may well stop short of many of those objectives.
Whilst on the subject, I have just seen a BBC newsflash saying that the Chancellor has announced public sector pay for the coming pay round will be limited to less than 2%. That is to mine (and apparently the TUC's reckoning), at least 2% below headline inflation and therefore in effect a pay cut for workers in the public sector. As the public sector increase is normally reflected in the local government salary increases (which the IFA and BAJR use to benchmark their pay minima), it might be useful if all parties could indicate whether the Living Breathing Wage Campaign is going to be stalled at 2%.
I can't imagine that many archaeologists are going to waste their time gettting involved in the hard work of a pay campaign that at the end of the day is going to be limited to confirming a [u]decrease</u> in real terms of 2%. I already detect a hint of tea-hut cynicism that might follow such an announcement. As the late departed Chairman might have said 'Although at present we appear to be going backwards, believe me folks this is the start of The Great Leap Forward' [?]
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Oh for crying out loud - no wonder nothing gets done in this profession - we now have a discussion about the wording!! Its crap - thats the end of it - call it a living wage, dignity wage what ever, call it a joke for all it matters!! Its like the debate in monty python and the holy grail!
Important point is doing something about it not arguing over what we call it!!
Any units interested in getting the union rep in?
