subsistance payments

[trowelfodder]

have recently finished working for a company that didnt pay sickpay for diggers (only office staff but thats a whole other issue) but when we were sick we had our subsistance money docked as well! Surely is adding insult to injury? Isnt the purpose of subs to give you money to live on and dont sick people need food too? Anyone know the legality of this?

[drpeterwardle]

It all depends.

Temporary staff must be treated the same as permanent staff. So if the office staff get sick pay and the field staff don’t there could be an illegality. But I am guessing that the office staff are permanent and the field staff are not.

Subsistence payments are a payment for expenses. They are not giving you money to live on. I think there are issues with subsistence payment at the levels being currently paid in any event.

So in crude terms you are suggesting that it is wrong for somebody who does not turn up to work not to be paid expenses.

Peter

[BAJR Host]

Peter is right (as ever ) about the non-preferenntial treatment

Less favourable treatment of fixed-term employees
3. - (1) A fixed-term employee has the right not to be treated by his employer less favourably than the employer treats a comparable permanent employee -


(a) as regards the terms of his contract; or

(b) by being subjected to any other detriment by any act, or deliberate failure to act, of his employer.


(2) Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the right conferred by paragraph (1) includes in particular the right of the fixed-term employee in question not to be treated less favourably than the employer treats a comparable permanent employee in relation to -



(a) any period of service qualification relating to any particular condition of service,

(b) the opportunity to receive training, or

© the opportunity to secure any permanent position in the establishment.


(3) The right conferred by paragraph (1) applies only if -



(a) the treatment is on the ground that the employee is a fixed-term employee, and

(b) the treatment is not justified on objective grounds.


(4) Paragraph (3)(b) is subject to regulation 4.

(5) In determining whether a fixed-term employee has been treated less favourably than a comparable permanent employee, the pro rata principle shall be applied unless it is inappropriate.

(6) In order to ensure that an employee is able to exercise the right conferred by paragraph (1) as described in paragraph (2)© the employee has the right to be informed by his employer of available vacancies in the establishment.

(7) For the purposes of paragraph (6) an employee is "informed by his employer" only if the vacancy is contained in an advertisement which the employee has a reasonable opportunity of reading in the course of his employment or the employee is given reasonable notification of the vacancy in some other way.

Objective justification
4. - (1) Where a fixed-term employee is treated by his employer less favourably than the employer treats a comparable permanent employee as regards any term of his contract, the treatment in question shall be regarded for the purposes of regulation 3(3)(b) as justified on objective grounds if the terms of the fixed-term employee's contract of employment, taken as a whole, are at least as favourable as the terms of the comparable permanent employee's contract of employment.

(2) Paragraph (1) is without prejudice to the generality of regulation 3(3)(b).

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2002/20022034.htm#3

As to subs... hmmmmmmmmmm as peter also says, it all depends what these subs pay for...

"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu

[lucy78green]

any company I ever worked for (that actually paid subs)never paid subs for sick days, holidays or bank holidays

Lucy

[voice of reason]

key phrase in Host's post I suspect is 'comparable' ie people of same grade doing equivalent duties. You are perfectly legally entited to have different levels of 'benefits' (eg amount of holiday, sick pay, pension contributions) for different grades of staff within an organisation.

and does Trowelfodder really mean that only office staff had sick pay? what about Supervisors or Project Officers?

[trowelfodder]

The set up within the company with reguards to sickpay was that only people who were appointed at Project archaeologist and above were entitled to sick pay from day one - those who worked their way up were given the title as a job specific promotion and not given same sick pay entitlements.

[beamo]

Then the set-up stinks - is this an RAO ?


Beamo

[Gilraen]

trowelfodder - sounds like they're pulling a fast one if you ask me.

[trowelfodder]

Yep they are an RAO. And this improvement in sick benifits was only offered after a letter signed by all the diggers was sent to head office. The origional proposal was something like no sick pay for 9months (may be more may be less cant remember specifics and threw away the blerb[:I]) and them sick pay was only paid after 3 days. This 3days had to be served each illness!!

This only applied to those who were employed as diggers and non permanet project archaeologists! Sick pay from day one for others!

[Illuminated]

At the moment diggers (particularly those with any experience) are in short supply, so now is the time to vote with your feet. If you are working for a company giving diggers less holidays and inferior sick pay conditions than to those in more permanent and office positions, simply leave. You are being exploited and there are plenty of units who will provide more reasonable conditions. Hopefully companies such as the one Trowelfodder has recently left will buck their ideas up if all their experienced staff leave, helping to better conditions nationwide. However, if they are who I think they are I suspect they'll just get more trainees in....

I can see how some companies may see giving better conditions to established staff as a loyalty bonus, though people lucky enough to have permanent jobs (in field or office) should be more than happy enough with that. It's the poor digger on statutory minimum sick pay and leave who suffers when trying to take time off to go to a doctor to get something for that painful rash incurred after days of bailing freezing standing water....