Time Team and Ainsbrook Hoard

[tom wilson]

This is a tangent, I know, but:
The Vikings inhabited only part of Britain, and only for a shortish period of time, so they aren't going to pop up everywhere, however if you're talking about the later part of the early medieval period there's absolutely loads of sites all over the place and no great trouble spotting them. Sunken Featured Buildings are quite obvious, I'd have thought. Even if you're dealing with a site where the buildings were mass-wall or sill beam construction, you'll typically still find lots of pits and far more material culture than late prehistoric sites in much of upland Britain (e.g. Yorkshire, where the Vikings are). Before anyone shots me down about late Iron Age Yorkshire, I am generalising, which I reserve the right to do on the internet.

Tom

PS I regret use of the word 'ignorant', which while accurate could be regarded as inflammatory.
PPS easy Oz, archaeologists have screwed up once or twice in the past, I'm sure Gary's point was not a general criticism
PPPS Gary, you've said that the archaeologists didn't look all that great on TT (as have others including me), but you've not talked at all about the detectorists on the program. Do you feel they were portrayed fairly, and that the program showed a fair spectrum of detectorists' views? What is Joe Bloggs going to have thought as he switched off last night? If I were you, I'd be pretty conflicted about that.
PPPPS Gary again, what's wrong with Steve's description of how a detectorist finding a site can lead to a custodianship agreement for the farmer? Sounds win win to me.

freeburmarangers.org

[Austin Ainsworth]

Peter,

I also don't agree with the holier than thou attitude evidenced by some archaeologists, nor do I agree with the down trodden and misunderstood attitude displayed by some detectorists. I have re-read Gary's comment several times and find no other interpretation than the one I have already advanced. I reiterate, if Gary can substantiate the claim made in his post then there will be no legal comeback on BAJR; publish and be damned.

If you ever wondered how you get triangles from a cow, you need buttermilk and cheese and an equilateral chainsaw. Half Man Half Biscuit

[garybrun]

I accuse all archaeologists in my view of professional negligence. "All" meaning they that don’t utilize the skills available to them to get out the maximum of understanding of the given project from a resource of volunteers who offer their services for free. Where many prefer to wear blinkers than face reality.
I accuse many in my view of professional jealousy and using class and degrees as a crutch to justify their motives. I accuse many in my view of stubbornly digging in their heals and not recognising there are others out there who can add to the archaeological knowledge and are stuck in their dinosaur ways. I accuse many in my view all who fail to recognise the work that is being done to promote good practise within the detecting community of being irresponsible. I have also given evidence on certain negligence and bad pratise and have had those people removed from their position.

I also accuse all detectorists of negligence and bad practise who also follow the same blinkered attitudes. (And if anyone wants to challenge me on my point of view in court then fine... bring it on).

What right have I do to do this?
I own the heritage too.

Now can we get back to the topic as I think I have answered your question in full!!!!! ???




Website for responsible Metal Detecting
http://www.ukdfd.co.uk
Recording Our Heritage For Future Generations.

[Austin Ainsworth]

Hi Tom,

long time no speak, I'm willing to be guided by wiser council than my own; in which regard I'll retire to read the comments of others until I feel the need to do otherwise.

If you ever wondered how you get triangles from a cow, you need buttermilk and cheese and an equilateral chainsaw. Half Man Half Biscuit

[Austin Ainsworth]

Tom, Peter,

I take on board all of your comments but as a final comment I do have to say that I am somewhat annoyed by Gary's editing of his posts which has altered the tenor of the original discussion.

If you ever wondered how you get triangles from a cow, you need buttermilk and cheese and an equilateral chainsaw. Half Man Half Biscuit

[garybrun]

quote:Originally posted by Austin Ainsworth

Tom, Peter,

I take on board all of your comments but as a final comment I do have to say that I am somewhat annoyed by Gary's editing of his posts which has altered the tenor of the original discussion.

If you ever wondered how you get triangles from a cow, you need buttermilk and cheese and an equilateral chainsaw. Half Man Half Biscuit

Austin what do you want off me??
I have already stated that I will not write on the forum the name of the person for legal reasons. I will not be goaded into doing so either. Its is David who would be liable... I will not do it.
I have no way changed the "tenor" of the original discussion.

I keep going back too or trying to take us back to the original point of this thread. How can "WE" promote the sharing of knowledge and each others expertize. This is what this thread is about. This is what Bajr is about and why I visit this site.




Website for responsible Metal Detecting
http://www.ukdfd.co.uk
Recording Our Heritage For Future Generations.

[drpeterwardle]

Gary said:

"All" meaning they that don’t utilize the skills available to them to get out the maximum of understanding of the given project from a resource of volunteers who offer their services for free...

OK here is why I will not use "volunteers" even if they are free.

1. H&S issues but mainly in terms of training, accountability and control.
2. PPE
3. Quality control - it is easy to maintain quality control with somebody who is hired.
4. Confidentiallity
5. Data consistency
6. Hours of work
7. Understanding of ecological requirements
8. Supervision
9. Administration.
10. Control.
11. Management and supervision time.

This is just the reality of archaeology in the C21 where the bulk of the work is done as part of multi-million pound projects. I take the same view whatever tools they use.

Peter Wardle

[garybrun]

OK Peter.
How do you get the detectorists to be viewed as professionals?
Would you use them if they took a health and safety course?

The points you raise are valid but still don't address the topsoil issue.
Do all the detectorists who help on the Time Team digs have to take a health and safety course?


I am thinking about making a training DVD for archaeologists on how to use a metal detector, the various metal detectors available and the different jobs they can all perform.



Website for responsible Metal Detecting
http://www.ukdfd.co.uk
Recording Our Heritage For Future Generations.

[BAJR Host]

I do have to disagree with Peter... I see his point... but at the end of the day... where there is a will... and I and I am sure he can remember how we started in archaeology

NOW... HOT of the PRESS and straight from the Horses Mouth...

a BAJR SCOOP! even!

this just in from someone actually on the show... and a very very interesting point that the two detectorists are showing that they have continued to show that they are willing !

"Hi Bajr, I have been reading the comments on your forum. Interesting and ...mostly...positive.

Obviuosly what we all saw was a pastiche of hours (and years!) of filming so what you see and interpret isn't the whole picture. So I'm still glad by the postive responses.

I see (and it's a good thing), that it is causing some to ask honest questions about ourselves and the profession, which I find (sometimes) is rather full of it but I suppose every profession has double standards and members who quite clearly should not be in the said profession.

By and by though and going back to the programme itself...I thought the final (aired) version was too short. Pity no one on the forum has asked..."so what actually happened in the end?" Boy could I spill the beans and shame many an ARCHAEOLOGIST for their incompetence in mishandling what started as a very postive venture that took the best part of four years of my life. So much more happened after the cameras stopped rolling! Good thing to, coz, as far as I'm concerned, the system put in place to cater for such discoveries failed at the final hurdle and you don't want to see that on national television!

It is our fortune then Mark and Geoff continue to work with the archaeological community, especially York Uni and endeavour to do the right thing as best as they can, not being archaeologists. They have their own club now with a very limited membership and ownership of a GPS is standard. What more could you ask of people pursuing, what is afterall, a hobby (and a legal one at that).

"No job worth doing was ever done on time or under budget.."
Khufu

[garybrun]

Well there you go.
So... what do we learn from this and how can "we" educate one another??

P.s ..."so what actually happened in the end?"


Website for responsible Metal Detecting
http://www.ukdfd.co.uk
Recording Our Heritage For Future Generations.