'What has IFA ever done for us...?'

[kevin wooldridge]

Also, they by-and-large tend to have a somewhat rose-tinted memory from their now-distant fieldwork days when it comes to how much s**t a shovel-operative can move in a day.....

Allow us oldies some indulgence Dino...you know full well that in the good old days most of us could shift a fair sized site, dig several burials, draw the site plan with a nail dipped in blood and catalogue all of the finds and do it all before a hearty breakfast of lard pie and strong ale...you youngsters just don't know how lucky you are!!

[BAJR]

Ar ... how true... though I suspect Dino is one of our generation too... the strong ale makes you stronger.. and I still remember how to lift a trowel... as does kevin I would guess that a good thing for managers to do would be to get out there one week a year and get in the trench.

I can still draw a plan in double speed, and be accurate to the nearest gravel pebble. still set up a Total Station over a peg in 45 seconds... ready to go... still write a good context record sheet... I know what is needed for the final product, and for the final product I know what to expect... My growing volunteer army are training up fine... they are part of teh process now - we all know what to look for... a team effort... and the nice thing? I get to dig archaeology... Time to put the pizzazzzz back into everyones fizzer

[Odinn]

Seems that way, certainly what can and can't be done within budget/timescale. Also, they by-and-large tend to have a somewhat rose-tinted memory from their now-distant fieldwork days when it comes to how much s**t a shovel-operative can move in a day.....

Rose-tinted? I suppose some might ...

It sounds like your managers are not adopting a suitably organised approach to costing up their sites. Excel is a great tool for tracking costs versus time versus area and staffing, and giving ball-park figures for all those things on any given site. When all this data is recorded consistently and accurately, they ought to be able to put together more accurate costings. That said, the managers are expected to cost up the sites on the basis of what is expected to be there, while putting in a quote that will actually win the job. The resultant quotes might be seen as over-optimistic as Windbag suggests, or it might just be that they are trying to get the work to keep everyone employed and they have to cut the costs to win the jobs. Seems to me that they are on a hiding to nothing whatever they do, unless they are lucky enough to win a job even though they have submitted a comfortably realistic tender. Makes me glad I am not one.

[Dirty Boy]

Allow us oldies some indulgence Dino...you know full well that in the good old days most of us could shift a fair sized site, dig several burials, draw the site plan with a nail dipped in blood and catalogue all of the finds and do it all before a hearty breakfast of lard pie and strong ale...you youngsters just don't know how lucky you are!!

I can still draw a plan in double speed, and be accurate to the nearest gravel pebble. still set up a Total Station over a peg in 45 seconds... ready to go... still write a good context record sheet... I know what is needed for the final product, and for the final product I know what to expect...

Some of us youngsters can do all of the above as well, and in fact without complaining about their creaky joints

Mmmm... lard pie and strong ale....}

[Jack]

I wouldn't want to get into an argument of who is young and who is old.........or just how old is old........................

But, I'd say strong ale and steak and ale pie is better............mmmmm

[BAJR]

So it seems that the drift is... people complain about the IfA not doing anything, but tehy are not sure what it is they do either... but whatever it was they do they don't do it well? er... so for those that voted and even those that did not...


What would you expect the IfA to do? What would it take to get you to join...?

[Odinn]

So it seems that the drift is... people complain about the IfA not doing anything, but tehy are not sure what it is they do either... but whatever it was they do they don't do it well?

That sounds rather like the situation vis-a-vis the different job roles in archaeology too.}

What would you expect the IfA to do? What would it take to get you to join...?

I am already a member. I would hope that they could gain chartered status and contribute to the common weal by ensuring that suitable standards of work were maintained. Influencing pay would be good too, especially if they managed to get the wages increased in line with other professions. I was asked once some years ago by a new staff member's mother "Is this really what you pay a graduate?" The shamefaced answer was, of course, "Yes". Perhaps chartered status could help remedy that. Ensuring continuous professional development would be another good thing. The IFA's recent drive on this is commendable, although their response to unemployed archaeologists querying how they are meant to afford any level of training was appallingly poor. Someone snarkily commented about CPD earlier in this thread (I think) because they were happy at the level they were at in terms of job role. CPD is not just about getting training to get promotions. It is also about ensuring that your skills are up-to-date in your current role and that you are aware of the newest research and methodologies so that you can apply them where appropriate. This means that it is all about making sure that you are the best post-hole expert you can possibly be, not just about getting new skills so that you can get a job higher up the food chain. There, that's a few ideas to rip apart.

[Dinosaur]

One of the joys of the continuing job-diversification in field archaeology is that it's removed much of the requirement for skills diversification - if I want something surveyed I get a surveyor, saves having to learn what all the buttons do (what happened to proper brass-and-glass survey gear, had that figured...). The only formal training I've had on computers involved a pencil and some little ovals on a bit of card, since the punching machine and the actual electronic bits were in another building (which was in another town). No one seems to do actual useful CPD like getting people plant-tickets (which would also count as a transferrable skill when archaeology goes titsup)

[Dirty Boy]

Someone snarkily commented about CPD earlier in this thread (I think) because they were happy at the level they were at in terms of job role. CPD is not just about getting training to get promotions. It is also about ensuring that your skills are up-to-date in your current role and that you are aware of the newest research and methodologies so that you can apply them where appropriate. This means that it is all about making sure that you are the best post-hole expert you can possibly be, not just about getting new skills so that you can get a job higher up the food chain. There, that's a few ideas to rip apart.

Hope that wasn't me :0

I think I'd like to see the IFA carry on its good work producing standards and guidance and focus on that, but also ensure that units follow these - I've yet to see evidence that RAO = good unit. I think pay and conditions are better handled by a union, but I also wouldn't like to see the IFA drop their minima pay scheme.

In terms of CPD - I'd like the IFA to carry on promoting this, but put more responsibility on the employer to actually provide training for their field staff (or do they already?). It's not just about moving up the chain - what about specialists visiting sites and giving training on sampling, pottery identification, flint, surveying, bricks, geoarchaeology, zooarchaeology, etc. etc. to help add skils to those who do want to carry on being "posthole" experts (and those who don't!). For unemployed archaeologists could the IFA provide cheap courses spread around the country?

It shouldn't just be about ?200 training courses set in a classroom - some of the best training is on the job and I think should be more formalised.
(Sadly i did work at a unit where all sites were shut down for a day every 3 months and we all had a chat from a specialist on these areas. Sadly I was the only member of staff who didn't complain about this, and thought it was a really worthwhile experience ).

Finally, (this is going to be contraversial ) I think the membership fees need to be reduced to reflect the current situation. (As I see it), you don't get a lot for your cash. If my fees were about 50 - 60 quid a year or so, I'd probably join, not only to "get a job with an RAO" but also to help out with the IFA's work promoting standards. If good, formalised training was actually provided by an RAO, I'd see the ?100 or so membership fee as a bit more reasonable.

[Jack]

I'd join the IFA if it was free. But then I'm tight, putting paying for heating and food above paying other peoples wages.