Ask not what a Union can do for you (2)....

[Dinosaur]

on the sidelines?

Not pro-union and not a unit manager, so yes! Where can we buy tickets? :face-approve:

[Jack]

Its part of my job as a project officer to make sure that the diggers have somewhere nice to stay and to sort out the problems that arise with accommodation (fridge too small, heating not working) etc. I'm involved in the planning stages of my projects so have an input on the specific conditions on each project (e.g. is overtime a likely requirement is it at time and a half etc.). These little details are job specific as they are dictated by the specific contract with the specific client.

The fiver a week came off the top of my head (based on half what it would cost me to join say Prospect)

I take your analogy of planting veg......although you don't have to pay each week (except for plant food etc!)
And I agree that the Union subs would be a worthy investment in the future if that union could really change things.....

I'm really interested in which union Ken Denham was talking about and what good things happened.

Is it best for people to all join the same union, form a single archaeological union or just join any old union?

[BAJR]

The idea is to join either PROSPECT .... UNITE .... UNISON depending on who is either closest to you - already in your company - makes you feel nice.

the TUC will help to create a link and a Working Party group that represents all aspects of heritage thus ensuring joined up thinking... formed of all the unions.

And I agree that the Union subs would be a worthy investment in the future if that union could really change things.....

Can only change things if you join.... if you don't - it can't and you will be sitting there saying... nothing changed... this is the choice for people... change it OR accept your lot.

tenner a week to join PROSPECT!! Blimey...

UNITE Rates weekly: ?2.53 or ?131.52 per year (FULL TIME EMPLOYED)
weekly ?0.25 or ?12.96 per year ( Unemployed / Student / Training or under 18)


PROSPECT Rates

Special rate *: ?1.10 a month (salary ?11,510 or below)

Band 1: ?6.15 a month (salary ?11,511 ? ?16,440)
Band 2: ?8.45 a month (salary ?16,441 ? ?20,275)
Band 3: ?10.75 a month (salary ?20,276 ? ?25,205)
Band 4: ?13.60 a month (salary ?25,206 ? ?33,970)
Band 5: ?15.75 a month (salary ?33,971 and over)
* The special band replaces the former special rate for members who are unemployed, on unpaid leave or maternity leave, in between contracts etc






SO now you know...



As to the project specific...

(e.g. is overtime a likely requirement is it at time and a half etc.). These little details are job specific as they are dictated by the specific contract with the specific client.

surely overtime is a company policy - not a day to day concept... Today you will tomorrow you won't as you have moved to a different site... :face-huh: smooth running of a site... as a PO... well thats exactly what the job is... so it can't really be compared to negotiations on an industry basis. I would hope... dear god say yes ... that if you got to a site and there was no portaloo OR the fridge was too small that you would not have to enter into negotiations with either a) your company or b) the client to get that sorted... its the little things in life know them only too well.


So hopefully, you see the actual cost of joining.... you see the benefits to the sector as a whole from top to bottom, you see the need... so what's stopping you? OR is you company a non-union / anti-union?



BENEFITS:


Lets just look at PROSPECT


Ten good reasons to join Prospect

1. We negotiate on your behalf on pay, grading, and other terms and conditions of employment such as hours, leave, pensions etc. We are recognised by over 300 public and private sector employers.

2. We provide specialist advice on work-related problems. Every year we handle thousands of personal cases on issues ranging from appraisal appeals to disciplinary cases, right through to employment tribunals, with a high success rate. (But please note that we reserve the right not to take up cases for members where the event giving rise to the case occurred before that person became a member.)

3. Our 1,300 local safety representatives help protect your health and safety at work. They deal with issues ranging from stress to hazardous substances.

4. LegalLine, our free 24-hour telephone helpline, offers high quality legal advice on almost any problem except employment law.

5. Our personal injury scheme provides assistance to members and their families who are injured or become ill through the negligence of a third party. In 2009 we helped 107 claimants win a total of over ?4m in damages. And our ClaimLine provides a fast-track service for personal injury claims over the telephone or via the internet. We also have special compensation schemes for radiation-linked diseases and noise-induced deafness cases.

6. Our benevolent fund provides grants to members, retired members and their dependents in financial distress. In 2009 we helped 25 members, giving over ?35,000 in grants.

7. We negotiate with employers for proper training and career development programmes, as well as providing a range of our own services, including an online career development portfolio.

8. We are a campaigning organisation, well-respected for our work on issues such as science funding, energy policy and quality public services. Prospect is non-party political, but our members' expertise makes our voice count.

9. We fight discrimination at work and in society. Our equal opportunities work includes negotiating family-friendly policies in the workplace, and our own career development project for ethnic minority staff.

10. We have an excellent range of members' deals and discounts.

Even if you're employed on a personal contract and aren't covered by collective negotiations on your pay, terms and conditions, Prospect can help. We have a special contracts advice hotline and can represent you in disciplinary and grievance actions.

[Jack]

oh yeah, oops! miss understood or miss read the rates. And cheers for the info.

And exactly correct! You can't change anything without doing something.

No our company isn't anti-union or non-union. Its just I've personally never seen or been involved with anything union-based here.

One thing I am still not clear on, however, is this buisness of a company 'recognising' a union? Can a company not recognise a (or all) unions?

[Dinosaur]

Why should a company be expected to pay overtime rates if the client's refusing to pay them overtime rates? I gather clients regularly tell our management to f**k-off when they cost-in time and a half etc, comes down to getting the job and keeping people employed or not getting the work and laying them off. Are you so mad keen on your ideology that you'd rather see people laid off than just earn a normal rate - which seems to be fine for the other 40 hours a week....if ten pound an hour or whatever is good 9-5 why is it suddenly not good 5-7 or on a Saturday? Fifteen would be nice but even a tenner seems a lot better than no tenner....:face-stir:

[Sparky]

Dinosore,
Why should you expect archaeologists to work for you with that opinion. If you can't get the contract, tough. There's enough projects offering overtime and thats where I would be heading if I worked for you.

[kevin wooldridge]

One thing I am still not clear on, however, is this buisness of a company 'recognising' a union? Can a company not recognise a (or all) unions?

As the law stands at the moment if a majority of the work force vote to be represented by a union then the company has to recognise that union. (Of course the law may change very very soon.......)

I would be interested to know how all of these non-union archaeological workplaces go about Health and Saftey consultations.....it seems to me that many may not be following the letter of the law....

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg232.pdf

Over to you Jack and Dinosaur.....

[BAJR]

Are you so mad keen on your ideology that you'd rather see people laid off than just earn a normal rate - which seems to be fine for the other 40 hours a week

Not my ideology I'm afraid.. just the way conducted business with my company. I treated employees as such... and they had standard hours, standard overtime etc... standard holiday standard pension offer. it did not change job to job... just keeping to the contract of employment. When temp staff were brought in they had the same rights... (non preferential treatment) and the few self employed people that came to do work would settle their own rates beforehand based on the job.

Would I "rather see people laid off" - what a loverly loaded question... let me think... :face-huh:

Its simple (and a recent advert had it - another case in point... I was not so keen... however... in that case I was willing to say... the additional is worth the extra )

However. the law is this

Overtime generally means any work over the basic working hours included in your contract. Regulations say that most workers can't be made to work more than an average of 48 hours a week, but they can agree to work longer. This agreement must be in writing and signed by you.


Your contract of employment should include details of overtime pay rates and how they are worked out.

So permanent staff will have this in their contract... and temp staff will have the same rights... or perhaps I is wrong ..

Let the union help

[Jack]

I would be interested to know how all of these non-union archaeological workplaces go about Health and Saftey consultations.....it seems to me that many may not be following the letter of the law....

Over to you Jack and Dinosaur.....

I believe our's does it by having a health and safety representative as per the second bit of those regs.

[GnomeKing]

Dino' - WTF - would you never put your principles before your apparently desperate scramble for the next job?...

your attitude brings to mind those Mysterious Temp Agenceys that now haunt Job Centers (eg Polly Toynbee "Hard Work" 2003) ("come for a trial at low wage, oh you need to pay your own transport to the interview...and theres a small charge for the uniform..., by the way as temporary staff you have no sick/holiday pay ect...just sign here...well you do want a job dont you?...its better than nothing!....[after a few weeks] sorry no permenant positions available....but there is agencey that might help....")..........or perhapes some kind of 1930's gang master...or a 21st c. Fagen

...how low will we go to undercut each other, and Dance for the Rich Mans Crumbs?

At some piont a Stand must be taken...i guess there will always be few on the Wrong Side...

There may be higher stakes and wider issues...beyond archaeology, this is about Root Democracy and Empowerment...are we happy with how gross capital speculation has damaged us all and the planet we live on? Are we happy with the strength of our voice on issues we all care about?

Union membership and a regonised cross-organisational charter will enable archaeologists to act strongly in defence of thier Proffesion and thier Research, against the assults of Market Forces...and help to promote our collective Skill as culturally valuable national assets...

It will also allow collective sanction of Rouge Traders, who are not acting in the best long-term interests of the Majority, or the Discipline of Archaeology.