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It is however... a case of is it workable... and this is where it is going to take all the groups as well as even little ol' bajr to make this even a dream. But worth considering... and I hope people are considering the implications and the methods o delivery
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Oxbeast Wrote:Dinosaur, these rates are substantially above the current going rates, maybe you should read the job adverts on this site to keep in touch with the profession.....
As I think was entirely clear in my last post, the current BAJR rates are
almost exactly the current going rates, at least around here (ignoring the arguements about employed/self-employed - let's not start all that again here!), if you're getting substantially less than those rates you're working for a really s**t outfit
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Dinosaur. The AIFA level covers people from Junior/Assistant Supervisor Level up. The average supervisor is lucky to be on ?18,000 currently. No where the ?24,000 level.
I'm currently a Project Officer and should be paid well above the AIFA minimum (of 24,000) that is recommended by the benchmarking. I'm currently earning over 3k less than that.
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I think the suggested IFA rates are going in the right direction but the BAJR rates seem to be a better reflection of reality.
Has anyone done a survey of what companies are actually paying their staff or is this one of those areas where companies are reluctant to give information away as it is commercially sensitive?
Does the IFA monitor the rates of pay of registered organisations?
My experience of rates of pay comes from the jobs I have done and those that are advertised which are generally in keeping with BAJR rates. However the rumour mill does suggest that there are companies out there who are paying peanuts.
I gave up long ago comparing archaeological wages with those of other industries as it makes me weep.:face-crying: We are really a very long way from what we should be paid especially those in project management positions.
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And theres the old old issue of job titles of ways around paygrades - such as in a company i worked for all archaeologists were called project archaeologist apart from the manager who was senior project archaeologist!
In that instance we were paid under just over 17grand to work at PO level but contracts kept vauge and stressed flexability
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It is the big problem that I have to wrestle with.. As Dino rightly says... in general the BAJR rate is the rate that is paid... and long ago I stepped away from job title and looked at what you do... all clearly laid out in the BAJR guide to pay and conditions (created yearly and comment is asked from every contractor) I introduced overlapping grades and more subtle progression based on consultation and advice.. It is true to say that BAJR grades are now accepted as the minima (though I do hear of attempts to subvert it... but when I find out I phone up... only when I find out mind)
We should be clear that teh pay scales mentioned above are aspirational... and I agree with them... the trick comes in making it happen... and I would like to see a telescoping of pay... so that you actually have some point to progress. Which is why I am working with Manchester to produce the Skills Passport as a test run in creating a verifiable measure of competence and thus pay. (none of htis is totaly original thought.. It is a bringing together of ideas and other successful schemes that sees a way forward. But it needs every one to back it... The IfA are indeed the ones to push it... but lets not remember a close run thing in November! And BAJR... well... BAJR is a wild card... trusted (I hope) and reasonably even-handed (I try) - but I can't push too hard and as Dino also notes... I could raise the minima by 25% across the board.. result...
1) nobody advertisses with me any more..
2) anyone who does raise by 25% goes quickly out of business
3) we are worse off than before... with no BAJR to keep an eye on rates... and over the years (as those that know) I do keep an eye open and will talk. Why else do you think that BAJR grades are seen as standard.??
So the companies have to survive... the pay has to increase... the benefits have to be in place... the training has to be rewarded (both for the company and the employee) the archaeology has to be done to the highest standard (not the minimum) the benefit has to be appreciated... etc
For over 10 years I have been moving to this point.... but lets not lose sight of the reality... and lets not forget that BAJR can move forward only slowly (already my rates are above IfA ) but they are ahead... and I wish I could do more... but the IfA must take the lead... one person can't be expected to do this... this takes all of us!
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nice one BAJR - the IFA must take the lead for the future.
with higher rates of pay i think we must also uphold higher levels of integrity and professionalism - we all know there is massive and quick unpredictable variations in, for example, fieldwork competencies between different people - we should be paid more, but we can also increase the quality of the Product and the Producer....
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I would have thought worrying about payscales is a bit academic given the impending public spending cuts. You're the ConDem govt and have pledged to cut 25-35% of public spending (and now considering 40%). Who's for the chop? Nurses? Soldiers? Police? Schools? Archaeologists? Bit of a no-brainer. And once we've lost the LA archs who's going to ensure PPS5 is implemented? However much 'better' it may be considered, I am aware that there are LPA's that don't bother to consult their own archs - conditions only get attached due to the diligence of those archs constantly reviewing their own council websites. Without the LA archs it's a pretty enormous chasm awaiting the rest of us in the private sector and, indeed, our heritage. I suppose the only bit of light is that there'll be such widespread unemployment that no-one will be building anything, be it houses, roads, schools for the future etc so nothing will be destroyed???
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what is your point Big? - just roll over and take it up the ***? ultimately, if we care about the archaeology then we must indeed be very diligent - plenty of archs are already not diligent enough...
if you dont like the big picture then you must try to change it - if that means opposition to a current government, or prevailing modes of socio-economic rape, then perhaps that is were we must begin, maintaining our diligence for the preservation of heritage for as long as it still has any meaning to us...
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Bravo, GnomeKing...well said!
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Merlot in one hand, Cigar in the other; body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, what a ride!
IfA - Salary benchamarking, report and new consultation
