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8th July 2010, 11:04 PM
(This post was last modified: 8th July 2010, 11:08 PM by trainedchimp.)
Quote:Think we already worked through all the pros and cons of IFA membership a month or two back, and IFA are clearly only interested in the views of their paid-up members (so much for claiming to represent the archaeological/heritage industry), so no, looks like the other 50%+ will have to stick with the fatalism, sorry
On the one hand, why should they bother with the views of non-paid up non-members - isn't that what any professional association or trades union would do?
On the other, according to the latest letter, if you're not a member it's up to me to persuade you of the benefits of joining.... apparently by not joining you're undermining all of my good work.
So here goes...
Erm...
Well...
Thinking...
Actually, for me it was pretty simple. It was a good way of demonstrating what I'd done and what level I'd worked at. Job titles in archaeology tend to be pretty well unrelated to what work you actually do, and I was doing MIfA level work on PiFA pay and JD. So I joined at AifA and upgraded as soon as I hit the the qualifying 3 years. It was effectively independent corroboration that I'd effectively been a PM for 4 years despite being nominally an assistant supervisor/supervisor. And it got me a decent PM job. Enlightened self-interest, works every time
That and if I hadn't I'd have effectively had to have joined as soon as I got the new job, as there isn't really an alternative, except perhaps IHBC, but I'm not an architect....
Oh yes, and private sector employers (if they're actually any good) are usually pretty happy to pay membership fees of professional associations, it looks good in tenders and IIP audits and the like, and I would have thought if Dino's employers were as generous as s/he reckons, they'd have paid for his/her fees.... 
Well, there you have it...
plus if you're a 'self-employed sub-contractor' you can always offset the fees against tax...
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Sadly I seem to have managed all that without ever being inconvenienced by IFA membership fees.....anything else?
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trainedchimp Wrote:On the one hand, why should they bother with the views of non-paid up non-members - isn't that what any professional association or trades union would do?
On the other, according to the latest letter, if you're not a member it's up to me to persuade you of the benefits of joining.... apparently by not joining you're undermining all of my good work.
There's a letter? Really? Are all non-IFA members filthy mud blood traitors to the cause now?
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I have to say I may have been lucky, but these bands correspond to what I've had......the question in my mind is whther if you're on poor wages should you stay and fight or pack it in and do something else! If you put up with pea-nuts your a monkey!
The only reason I ever joined the IFA was because my employer paid for it! I've not found it usefull in any way....
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archaeologyexile Wrote:The only reason I ever joined the IFA was because my employer paid for it! I've not found it usefull in any way....
If your employer paid for it, it clearly had a value for them though don't you think? What was their motive for paying for something which you don't seem to appreciate?
If you move on from your current job will you leave it off your CV?
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Merlot in one hand, Cigar in the other; body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, what a ride!
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9th July 2010, 06:21 PM
(This post was last modified: 9th July 2010, 06:24 PM by Unitof1.)
Deadlylampshade
let me introduce you to the world of the pension grabber-sometimes known as a ponzi scheme, possibly an artefact of the baby boomers, pyramid scams run by nationalists-your heritage and mine boom boom not a boom any more
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Unitof1 Wrote:Deadlylampshade
let me introduce you to the world of the pension grabber-sometimes known as a ponzi scheme, possibly an artefact of the baby boomers, pyramid scams run by nationalists-your heritage and mine boom boom not a boom any more
Not quite sure I follow all that...if it is/was of no value and - if I DO understand you Unitof1 and you mean it is another fascist, capatalist plot - then why did archaeologyexile not say no when asked?
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Merlot in one hand, Cigar in the other; body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, what a ride!
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Like all things... IfA is only as strong as the membership, like unions like AAI&S like beign a member of a local society... You will have members that are active.. then a greater number that are just members,.,, then another group who feel that it should just be a member, and a final group that would not be a member if it were not for their partner who pays the fee. BAJR is not immune to this either.. thousands come but few support. those that do are stalwarts, there are others that pop up from time to time and there are others that just feelm they need to keep an eye out. I recently talked to one who remembered an old BAJR.. and had returned.
There has to be a strong mailed fist that controls and there has to be a velvet glove that soothes. the IfA ... have to decide who they are. and they are asking.. which if you go back in time is a massive step. Why be IfA well.. thats a choice just now. To actively want to be.. is the secret
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Greetings to all.
The IFA payscales certainly appear to be closer to the mark. They would certainly pull us closer to the expected salaries of others in valued professions. As "aspirational" payscales-they are to be applauded and that for me, is where the party draws to a close and the balloons all get burst. In the current climate (I believe things are about to get a whole lot uglier too), our industry simply could not adopt those payscales and survive as viable businesses. Unless we condense the entire workforce to perhaps one or two major super-companies. The IFA should be congratulated for finally realising that the heritage sector is unwilling to be undervalued by them or anyone else. Equally (and to be fair) they should be congratulated for placing the scales at such an acceptable rate. That said, the IFA should be admonished for displaying such a painful lack of business acumen in presenting these potential payscales during the onset of the worst recession since the second World War and- for completely refusing to accept that the heritage workforce is at least worth these rates for their entire existance as an organisation. Simply put- the IFA have undervalued the workforce for decades-particularly annoying as the majority of the industry didn`t ask them to speak on their behalf.
Here`s another point (answers/opinions on a post card please!).......
As a non-member of the IFA, am I going to find myself working alongside a PIFA/AIFA member but being paid thousands less for my arrogance of non-compliance?:face-approve:
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Mr Troll - agree with all of that, but maybe not so angry with the timing, just confused... It is great that after years of membership of the IFA where little seemed to happen, it's all happening just before a recession. I'm still intrigued how this kind of reccommendation won't just get laughed at. (although I can't see a timescale - maybe these wages will be reached in 20 years!)
Mr Hosty! (and everyone reading) "IfA is only as strong as the membership"
I think its a question of - why be a member? Its an important question for unionisation as well.
If no-one's ever read it - How to win friends and influence people by Dale Carnegie. Excellent book.
One of the rules for influencing people: GIVE PEOPLE AN EAGER WANT
Carnegie argues: Why should people fall in with your argument? Whats in it for them? You need to make people fall over themselves to join you on your sign of the argument. Its essentially salemanship, and I think if any group is going to suceed, it needs to follow this rule.
The IFA? I was a member for years. Paid about 30quid a year as a new digger, got it on my CV, got a jobs serive thing, and great. Not a problem. Several years later - 120 quid a year. Now, what did I get as a member for that extra money (and this is me being very, very cynical)
-4 glossy magazines a year
-the chance to vote for people I've never heard of
-money off some Cambridge books
-An invitation to a conference I can't attend
-A jobs information service that posts jobs I can find for free (cheers by the way!) on BAJR
-and now, a commitment to 50hours over 2 years CPD, but as far as I can see, no commitment on the part of RAO's to provide any training.
(And yes I could get elected to a postition, but I really, really hate comittees and am not a political animal. I much prefer benevolent dictatorship).
This was a fairly common view on the circuit a few years ago, at least the people I knew. Its not meant to be a bash, more an illustration of the above rule.
Where's the reasons for me falling over myself to join? Really? What do I gets for my money? How does paying out this money significantly benefit me? How does not paying out this money significantly harm me?
Would I be better off spending over a hundred quid on membership to the National Trust and English Heritage? To a union? To charity? In the pub?
If unionisation is going to get off the ground, the IFA is to increase membership, you need to give people a convincing reason to join up. And not "things will change in a few years". People tend to like instant gratification on the whole.
Again, its not a bash. I think its a serious issue, and one that needs addressing. I'm not against unionisation, or IFA membership. I'm never totally against anything, although some people are obviously entrenched. Like many people, you need to create a convincing, coherent argument thats going to make me "fall over myself" to join.
Again, not meant negatively, but as something to think about...:face-huh:
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