Government vote on higher education fees

[GnomeKing]

House of Commons to vote tomorrow on proposed new measures for funding university students, and repayment of those fees.

Just interested in how BAJRites view this.

simple poll - Yes or No - would you vote with or against the government on this issue?

please add comments if you so wish.

[vulpes]

love the typos in the poll. Nice work :face-approve:

[BAJR]

love the typos in the poll

What typos? For goodness sake Vulpes... do try and at least get through a day without sarcasm, it really is getting to become tiresome. Should you not begin a sentence with a capital letter as well, or are your standards slipping?

[vulpes]

well tie-dyed up BAJR. Good to see you urning your keep. What are your views on a free universty eduaction by the way?
Would you accept, 'get the first year free pay for the rest' for example? :p

[BAJR]

With ministers intending to shift the cost of the majority of courses to graduates, with plans to raise tuition fees in England to a maximum of ?9,000 a year from the current ?3,290, this becomes untenable in the long term, and returns us to the days when only those with money can ever hope to go to a university. This of course opens up the potential for 'non-academic' routes and pathways. But again, there must be an end result... where work carried out to gain a qualification becomes a burden. Of course I have my own views on Archaeology in some Universities preparing students for archaeology. Having just talked to one distraught student who is coming to terms with 4 years of debt (which this bill will treble) and none of the requirements to actually 'do' archaeology. Of course they could spend more money and time on an NVQ

The idea that education is a right, is firmly rooted in my beliefs, even though it was not for me, I should have had the right. Should it cost, well, this is a question... but if the end result is only economically viable courses surviving, then we are back to 'Archaeology and its worth' again. A university will ditch these courses first along with other non profitable courses. However, this is not what University is about.

I would prefer to see, pay for the first, get the rest free... thus getting placing a - no time wasting here barrier... if you pay for it, then you will go for it... paying 9k! a year... aye right!

[GnomeKing]

this is not a black and white issue - however the vote is....

here are my reasons for NO;

1 - a completely biassed apposition to ANY Troy led policy (grrrr!! - waves tattered Red Flag, handed down through several generations)

2- more logically....as with otehr issues, the problem goes far beyond money shuffling. ... What is university For?, how has it changed over the last 25 years?, is it good for the country to have so many graduates? what are these expensive course delivering? are there alternative ways to educate young people? should there be more support for specifically vocational and polytechnic type couyrses (perhapes not degrees)? will students get 'value for money'? how will this be assessed?

3- how do we justify and fund pure research and academia, if tighter scrutiny is put in direct industrial/economic benefits? - where does this leave archaeology (and comparable disciplines)?

Much as i hope this vote will plit the coalition, i strongly suspect that the issue has been revved up as a distraction from other ongoing governmental changes (or lack of).... in particular by forcing the students out on protest early on this issue the effect of more general protest can me softened - particularity as students are an easy demographic to ridicule, and often lack large scale impact/organisation/participation - thus the public becomes bored of protesters, and collective action spread thin.

Take for example the minister (cant remember which one) who specifically stated that he would NOT support ANY proposal offered by protesters - it was his 'duty' to oppose any policy that was not through official routes.
Also the various rhetoric from many politicians about how student protesters should be condemned, and that democratic voting was the only acceptable method.....

Have these people forgotten how it was we came by this so called parliamentary democracy?

"A riot is a bottom the voice of the unheard" - Martin Luther King.

[kevin wooldridge]

I voted 'Yes'.....why?

1 Because it shows this Tory government for what it really represents,
2 It shows the Lib-Dems for the bunch of chancers they really are,
3 it will keep student unrest ticking over in our 'dark satanic mills' for years to come
4 Any party who proposes the abolition of these charges will be a shoo-in at the next election
5 The Scottish, Welsh and Irish 'free' alternatives show the changes aren't necessary

Everything about the implementation of this policy is win-win (and I even think students can put up with a little short term hardship if we eventually get a better system out of a total rethink of the policy)

[GnomeKing]

you would make a good politician Kevin - several steps ahead of me there....:face-approve:
i might well reconsider given your comments....

[GnomeKing]

- its kicking off - police horses violently confront students -
-

[GnomeKing]

- crowd reacts with counter charge - possibly protesters have broken into parliament -

many 'non-student affiliates' apparently present - wide front of protest.

good.