Rigger boots banned?

[BAJR]

http://webcommunities.hse.gov.uk/connect...adId=34094

Among other discussions

http://riskdebate.hse.gov.uk/connect.ti/...ctId=24014

What is the general consensus... Rigger boots banned? OR not?

Personally I never wore them... laced up boots work for me.

[Dinosaur]

You only just caught up on this? Was one of the glaring mistakes on your 100 Tips thing. Lots of big firms banned them years ago, Network rail, Tarmac, Carrillion and Morrisons are a few of the big contractors that spring to mind. Of course if some of the obese ******s who drive plant for them ever bothered to get out of their cabs and toughen their ankles up a bit they wouldn't have all the sprains and the 'ankle support' issue wouldn't apply.....not that anyone ever does lace-ups up tight enough to get any benefit in that department anyway..... :face-stir:

[BAJR]

Written before this all happened... however... have to go!

It does seem to be non specific... and blanket bans are not really working otherwise...

Why is it that if you type rigger boot safety into google, every H&S store is selling them....? :face-huh:


I can't find anything about Ankle Support in HSE guidance either

However... I tend to this persons summing up

Just want to add my thoughts and experiences to the discussion on rigger boots:

"lack of ankle support" is (from my experience) an understatement. I have seen the state rigger boots get in after about a month of heavy duty work (e.g. bricklayers) in some cases they fold completely over the heal. I realise there are ones with ankle support but then there are other problems.

As stated previously by others, they were originally designed for oil rig workers (possibly the reason for the term "riggers"). Therefore, they come off easily, too easily. They were adopted by site managers and other staff members who regularly needed to change between "office" shoes and "site" footwear. For some reason their use extended to operatives. I have seen them come off during a slip or trip. I am also sure I can remember occasions when the types with "pull handles" contributed to trips as a result of snagging on re-bar etc.

I assume sites where management have banned them have done so as a result of the findings of accident investigations. If so, it would be good to see some findings/statistics. As many of you know, it's best to educate people rather than lecture rules to them.

Personally, I stopped wearing rigger boots on site about 5 years ago, after a contractor's safety adviser explained their problems. It was then that I recounted accidents and problems from my own time as a site manager.

I firmly believe that we should return to traditional laced-up boots as the "norm" and a risk assessment to inform when we need to deviate from this e.g. "working over water".......

Regards
Dr Billy Hare

[Dinosaur]

Correct, they're called 'rigger' boots cos North Sea guys wore them so they could be kicked-off quickly to avoid drowning in the unlikely event that they were still in any fit state to do so after falling 150ft off an oil rig... but then again it's quite handy on a building site if, having got your foot caught in a machine track or conveyor belt, that your boot comes off without your foot still being in it (anyone wearing lace-ups should keep a sharp knife where they can get to it quickly in an emergency)...speaking as someone who's tried sticking his arm into a conveyor belt THEY DON'T STOP :0

Is there something wrong with people's ankles these days? Homo Sapiens and previous rungs on the evolutionary ladder seem to have done fine without artificial ankle support, bring back natural selection, I say. In the meantime, using my riggers is becoming a rare treat

[kevin wooldridge]

I acn confirm that a 'ban' on rigger boots has been in operation on lots of major infrastructure projects since at least 2002 and possibly earlier. But I am still not sure entirely the reason ....

I discussed this once with a H&S officer for a major contractor and he pedalled the 'lack of ankle support' line. However when I pointed out the same project allowed workers to wear Wellingtons, which were equally 'unsupportive', he couldn't really offer a reason other than 'company policy'. My main objection to their use by archaeologists working in the field (rather than watching from a safe distance) is that too much poop gets in through the neck of the boot resulting in acute discomfort.....

[Dinosaur]

Oh, am I cheating wearing my work trousers over my boots to keep the mud out? Of course this can't be done with ankle-length lace-ups that most people wear....

One joy of riggers is the added shin protection they afford in the event of unfortunate ricochets when mattock/pickaxeing - being generally held slightly away from the offending body part they usually absorb the impact without the direct bruising impact which usually occurs with snugger footware, plus of course most site lace-ups are only ankle-boots anyway.

On the ankle-support issue, a sprained ankle is far less serious in medical/financial/misery terms than a broken lower leg, which is the next bit to go if the ankle is 'supported'. Plus of course if people actually bothered to look where they were treading....

Have been told by a manager off the record and without possibility of confirmation that the [unnamed major quarry company to avoid grief from BAJR] ban was brought in after someone wearing trainers where he shouldn't have been poured boiling water on his foot and to cover his a**e claimed he'd been wearing riggers and the water had gone down the front, hence the initial ban, but more recently their H&S guys have reverted to the 'ankle support' c**p

[eb.bond]

In the Netherlands I seldom see hard hats, even by people working around machinery, and many workmen wear clogs!

[Jack]

The rigger boot thing seems to be an excellent example of how not to approach health and safety.

From what I can gather its maybe from one (or maybe more) investigations after an accident. But much of my info is from annecdotes and filling in the gaps between.
The one I heard of was a worker larking about possibly with no boots on fell over twisting their ankle. When interviewed on what happened blamed the lack of ankle support from his rigger boots to get himself out of trouble for larking about. The recommendation from the investigation was to ban rigger boots - problem solved (apparently).

Now I have actually seen what happens next first hand. Construction project officer puts phone down and shouts across the office to the manager.

'Ere just bin talking to xxxxxx at (undisclosed company name) an they ban rigger boots.'

Manager answers

'Oh, we better ban them too.'

Discussion over.

Most H+S descions by big construction companies aren't backed up with any thought or assessment of risk, hence laughable 'madatory PPE' rules. Thats why when you execise your legal duty and ask for reasons for this or that being banned or the reasons for wearing goggles in the rain. You get the caveat of repeated non-sense....

'Why can't I take of my goggles? What are they protecting me from?'

' goggles are to protect your eyes from dust'

'But its raining, there is no dust. I can't see properly I have to take them off.'

'No you can't take them off company rules say you have to wear them at all times.'

[Dinosaur]

There's little or no legal basis to any of these rules, the HSE certainly hasn't heard of them, it's merely that construction companies like to cover their arses in the event of litigation - what's neede is more people sueing them for all those accidents caused by PPE, of which I personally have seen far more than accidents avoided by PPE. Am not aware, for instance, of any legal requirement to wear hard-hats around plant, indeed most small construction firms I've dealt with pretty much never wear the accursed things....

[troll]

Have worked on sites recently where riggers are not allowed. Seems to be the case though that the ban doesn`t relate to shiney asses and county mounties. The office lurkers, coffee junkies and facebook scanners clearly have different anatomical systems to the rest of us. On an unrelated but sad note......four working men lost their lives in Norfolk? in the past couple of days. This simply shouldn`t happen anymore.